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Airline Security a Waste of Cash
Wired.com ^ | Dec 1, 2005 | Bruce Schneier

Posted on 12/01/2005 8:55:03 AM PST by af_vet_rr

Wired.com does not allow material to be posted which is a shame, because this is a great article, so you'll have to visit the site to read it (the link I put here will just take you back to FR).

Admins, if this is still not okay, please lock it.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; airlines; airlinesecurity; id; security; tsa
Bruce Schneier wrote an excellent article about airline security.

He mentions what I call the "let's search granny and ignore certain people from certain regions" mentality.

He brings up how the no-fly lists don't work, and mentions how some of this stuff is moving us closer to a "Papers please" society.

Last, and most important, he mentions the only two things that have contributed to airline security - reinforced cockpit doors and passengers who know they have to fight back.

This isn't some run-of-the-mill journalist; besides being a member of the Secure Flight Working Group on Privacy and Security (government group put together to study airline safety), he's written extensively on security (both computer and otherwise). Some of you may have heard of him after reading the book 'Cryptonomicron'. His website

1 posted on 12/01/2005 8:55:04 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr

I was going through the security check for a domestic flight 2 weeks ago and they had everybody take off their shoes. PWEEEH.


2 posted on 12/01/2005 8:58:33 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: af_vet_rr
The program has been a complete failure, resulting in exactly zero terrorists caught.

He missed on that one.

3 posted on 12/01/2005 9:01:48 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Marine Inspector

Details? Unless your talking about Teddy Kennedy being on the no-fly list, lol.


4 posted on 12/01/2005 9:03:50 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: af_vet_rr
I can't give details, but I work for CBP (Customs and Border Protection) and while the no fly list has serious flaws, it does occasionally work and it has keeped some real bad guys out of the country.
5 posted on 12/01/2005 9:07:48 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Marine Inspector

So why don't they fix the flaws?


6 posted on 12/01/2005 9:14:53 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: af_vet_rr
Wired.com does not allow material to be posted

But you could still post the link to the article.

7 posted on 12/01/2005 9:18:53 AM PST by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: proxy_user

They don't fix the flaws because it's not about security - it's about citizen compliance. If you ever have occasion to buy a one-way ticket, prepare for "special screening". Gee, I wonder if the bad guys'll figure that out?


8 posted on 12/01/2005 9:20:09 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: proxy_user
So why don't they fix the flaws?

As I'm sure you know, the Feds are slow to fix anything. Also, I doubt the folks running the list think it's flawed. In their minds, inconveniencing the many to stop the few is OK.

9 posted on 12/01/2005 9:21:28 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
They don't fix the flaws because it's not about security - it's about citizen compliance.

On this issue, I would disagree. The shit the TSA pulls at it's check points is about compliance, but not the no-fly list.

The agencies involved in the no-fly list are actually trying to keep people from flying that actually may pose a threat to the plane.

Keeping knitting supplies, lighters, small knives, ect off the aircraft is about compliance, not security.

10 posted on 12/01/2005 9:26:36 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: af_vet_rr

The article doesn't really say anything we didn't already know, that Homeland Security is a massive bureaucracy with nobody at the steering wheel and zero intelligence. But it's valuable glimpse into things because the author actually had the chance to get up close and confirm what the rest of us know from a distance.

Or from reading Parkinson's Laws concerning the behavior of bureaucracies many years ago.

Basically, President Bush took a bunch of incompetent federal agencies, shoveled them all together into a huge bureaucratic mess, and then the Democrats insisted that all the airport inspectors had to join the government union, so they would be sure to get more votes out of it, everyone is paid double, and nobody can be fired. A recipe for failure at very high costs.


11 posted on 12/01/2005 9:26:54 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Marine Inspector

I see your point and you obvioulsy know more about it than what I see as a sometimes fly (which is only when there's absolutley no other way to get where I need to be).

Is your "marine inspector" handle related to the maritime trades?


12 posted on 12/01/2005 9:33:38 AM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Emmett McCarthy
Is your "marine inspector" handle related to the maritime trades?

No. Click on my screen name.

13 posted on 12/01/2005 9:41:37 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Emmett McCarthy
I came home from overseas to stay so therefore had a one-way ticket through Chicago (United Airlines).

After Customs (polite folks), I was required to go through the TSA gauntlet. Well, wouldn't you know it - "special treatment" was accorded me due to the one-way nature of my ticket. Mind you, these government robots never take the time to ask a few questions as they do in Europe.

After that, United Airlines bumped me off the flight home due to chronic overbooking. After spending the night at an airport hotel, I was once again treated to the "special treatment" by TSA due to my - you guessed it - one way ticket. I almost was bumped off that flight as well.

It would almost be worth it next time to purchase a round trip ticket so the TSA can do something simple.
14 posted on 12/01/2005 9:46:27 AM PST by LFOD (Formerly IRAQ - now home.....)
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