Jews for 'It's OK to Say Merry Christmas' Press Conference Thursday in Washington, D.C.

PR ^ | Nov 30 05 | Jews for its OK Merry Christmas

[churchillbuff]

To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor

Contact: Bryan Rudnick, 561-499-3201

News Advisory:

WHAT: Jews for "It's OK to Say Merry Christmas" press conference

WHEN: Thursday, Dec. 1, 1:30 p.m. to 2:30 p.m. at The National Press Club (529 14th St. N.W., Washington, D.C.) in the Murrow Room.

WHY: To speak out against the War on Christmas -- ongoing efforts to purge Christmas from our schools, public events, retail establishments and the culture, and why this should concern Americans of all faiths.

WHO:

Don Feder -- president, Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation

Michael Horowitz -- senior fellow, Hudson Institute

Rabbi Daniel Lapin -- president, Toward Tradition

Jackie Mason -- entertainer (by conference call)

Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation was organized to combat anti-Christian bias in government, the news media, Hollywood and public education -- and from activist groups. For more information, visit the Web site at http://www.jews4fairness.org.

http://www.usnewswire.com/

[familyop]

"And it wasn't Constantine who made it illegal for Jews to live in Jerusalem."

According to this history of Israel, he did. But I'll find transcripts of original Roman documents for the next debate (and some history sites that I'm working on).

"It was in another pagan Roman era, the destruction of Herod's temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and expulsion of the Jews and persecution of the Christians was by the hand of Titus and Vespasian."

It's interesting that you call it an "expulsion of the Jews" but a "persecution of the Christians." According to documents and inscriptions, the war was against the Jews, and the New Testament wasn't canonized until the Fourth Century.

[familyop]

"Further still, From the fourth century every Western calendar assigns it to 25 December."

Yes--the Fourth Century, during the reign of Constantine and by his decree.

"At Rome, then, the Nativity was celebrated on 25 December before 354, the beginning of Constantines rule. There is sporatic mention of the celebration of Cristes Maesse (mass of Christ) in the centuries prior as well."

Cristes Maesse was "...first found in 1038" (New Advent, Catholic Encyclopedia)

"That pretty much lays to rest the 'founding of Christmas on the Saturnalia or better known as Natalis Invicti, which reached its climax of popularity under Aurelian in 274, long before Constantines time' B.S."

The words, "...which reached its climax of popularity under Aurelian in 274" is found at that New Advent, Catholic Encyclopedia site with a citation to a reference. But see the inscription, "SOLI INVICTO COMITI" on the coin in the following image. That was Constantine's coin.



An excerpt from the following Wikipedia article uses a citation to a Catholic reference.

"According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967, article on "Constantine the Great": Sol Invictus had been adopted by the Church of Rome as evidenced by Christ as Apollo-Helios in a mausoleum discovered under St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City and dated to 250 and from the article on Christmas: from the beginning of the third century "Sun of Justice" was used as a title of Christ."

[familyop]

I have nothing against other people publicly celebrating Christmas. It's happened in my own house. I say "Merry Christmas" to Christians. But you did invite arguments by your replacement religion propaganda (when you wrote, "Christmas replaces Hannukah.").

[Thorin]

>>>>>It is in the Maccabees Books which are part of the Bible. Post Christian Jewish canons do not equal Church canons.

Yes, I know the story of Hanukkah is in Maccabees, and Maccabees is in my Bible (I'm Catholic). But Maccabees is not part of the Bible recognized by the Rabbis, which is why I referred to "the canonical Hebrew Bible." And it is odd to treat such a minor festival as an equal of Christmas, when it isn't even part of the Scriptures of the people who celebrate it.

[A. Pole]

But Maccabees is not part of the Bible recognized by the Rabbis, which is why I referred to "the canonical Hebrew Bible."

After the split between Jews and Christians the Rabbis stopped to be the deciding authority for the Christians. Their place took the church authority, the councils, Fathers of the church, the Saints etc ...

The deuterocanonical books incorrectly called apocrypha (books withdrawn from the use) are the latest books of the Old Testament, cover the times just preceding coming of Jesus Christ and as such they point the development of Judaism toward the Christianity. That is why they were withdrawn from the use by the Rabbies of the second century of the Christian Era.

Let me quote from the Wisdom of Solomon - one of the deuterocanonical books (King James, Authorized Version):

Wisdom 1

Love righteousness, ye that be judges of the earth: think of the Lord with a good (heart,) and in simplicity of heart seek him.

For he will be found of them that tempt him not; and sheweth himself unto such as do not distrust him.

For froward thoughts separate from God: and his power, when it is tried, reproveth the unwise.

For into a malicious soul wisdom shall not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin.

For the holy spirit of discipline will flee deceit, and remove from thoughts that are without understanding, and will not abide when unrighteousness cometh in.

For wisdom is a loving spirit; and will not acquit a blasphemer of his words: for God is witness of his reins, and a true beholder of his heart, and a hearer of his tongue.

For the Spirit of the Lord filleth the world: and that which containeth all things hath knowledge of the voice.

Therefore he that speaketh unrighteous things cannot be hid: neither shall vengeance, when it punisheth, pass by him.

For inquisition shall be made into the counsels of the ungodly: and the sound of his words shall come unto the Lord for the manifestation of his wicked deeds.

For the ear of jealousy heareth all things: and the noise of murmurings is not hid.

Therefore beware of murmuring, which is unprofitable; and refrain your tongue from backbiting: for there is no word so secret, that shall go for nought: and the mouth that belieth slayeth the soul.

Seek not death in the error of your life: and pull not upon yourselves destruction with the works of your hands.

For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living.

For he created all things, that they might have their being: and the generations of the world were healthful; and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of death upon the earth:

(For righteousness is immortal:)

But ungodly men with their works and words called it to them: for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.

Wisdom 2

For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.

For we are born at all adventure: and we shall be hereafter as though we had never been: for the breath in our nostrils is as smoke, and a little spark in the moving of our heart:

Which being extinguished, our body shall be turned into ashes, and our spirit shall vanish as the soft air,

And our name shall be forgotten in time, and no man shall have our works in remembrance, and our life shall pass away as the trace of a cloud, and shall be dispersed as a mist, that is driven away with the beams of the sun, and overcome with the heat thereof.

For our time is a very shadow that passeth away; and after our end there is no returning: for it is fast sealed, so that no man cometh again.

Come on therefore, let us enjoy the good things that are present: and let us speedily use the creatures like as in youth.

Let us fill ourselves with costly wine and ointments: and let no flower of the spring pass by us:

Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds, before they be withered:

Let none of us go without his part of our voluptuousness: let us leave tokens of our joyfulness in every place: for this is our portion, and our lot is this.

Let us oppress the poor righteous man, let us not spare the widow, nor reverence the ancient gray hairs of the aged.

Let our strength be the law of justice: for that which is feeble is found to be nothing worth.

Therefore let us lie in wait for the righteous; because he is not for our turn, and he is clean contrary to our doings: he upbraideth us with our offending the law, and objecteth to our infamy the transgressings of our education.

He professeth to have the knowledge of God: and he calleth himself the child of the Lord.

He was made to reprove our thoughts.

He is grievous unto us even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, his ways are of another fashion.

We are esteemed of him as counterfeits: he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness: he pronounceth the end of the just to be blessed, and maketh his boast that God is his father.

Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him.

For if the just man be the son of God, he will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies.

Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness, and prove his patience.

Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected.

Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them.

As for the mysteries of God, they kn ew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.

For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity.

Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.

Wisdom 3

But the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them.

In the sight of the unwise they seemed to die: and their departure is taken for misery,

And their going from us to be utter destruction: but they are in peace.

For though they be punished in the sight of men, yet is their hope full of immortality.

And having been a little chastised, they shall be greatly rewarded: for God proved them, and found them worthy for himself.

As gold in the furnace hath he tried them, and received them as a burnt offering.

And in the time of their visitation they shall shine, and run to and fro like sparks among the stubble.

They shall judge the nations, and have dominion over the people, and their Lord shall reign for ever.

They that put their trust in him shall understand the truth: and such as be faithful in love shall abide with him: for grace and mercy is to his saints, and he hath care for his elect.

But the ungodly shall be punished according to their own imaginations, which have neglected the righteous, and forsaken the Lord.

For whoso despiseth wisdom and nurture, he is miserable, and their hope is vain, their labours unfruitful, and their works unprofitable:

[Convert from ECUSA]

"So if the Jews are not offended at Christmas, and the Christians are not offended by Christmas, just who the heck is the idiot that is, and why is HE so important. Obviously HE is way outnumbered. Anti-Christian Persicution OFFENDS ME and the MAJORITY of AMERICANS. Tell the Muslim puke to go home if he does not like it..."

Amen and right on, AiI!!

[A. Pole]

Early Christians/converted Greco-Romans were using the popular pagan symbols as a method to connect and translate Christian meaning to the surrounding culture.

For example Christ could depicted as victorious Orpheus who succeeded in freeing the beloved human soul from the Hades. (Orpheus failed).

Classic culture was profound and was helpful in preparing Greeks and Romans fro the reception of the Gospel.

Also Greek philosophy and her terminology was adopted for the expression of Christian doctrine.

Classic culture was profound and was helpful in preparing Greeks and Romans fro the reception of the Gospel. Christians were not barbarians bent on destroying what they found.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Hey, for Christians that believe she is the mother of the Messiah, the title fits! :) Besides, too many keep forgetting that she was Jewish; she was born and lived in Israel, not in downtown Stockholm!

[Cecily]

Not only that, but what did Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. preach from to call Israel to repentance and to demonstrate that Jesus was the Messiah of Israel? The OT.

[smith288]

No offense, but where'd you copy and paste that from?

Its reasonable to believe Jesus celebrated Hannukah with him being Jewish and all... Im not offended to assume he did and its not a rediculous idea for me to accept.

[sheik yerbouty]

I am more inclined to accept post #128 than yours. You explanation does little to convince me. I suppose that in the Last Days, all will be revealed. Right now, we "look through a glass darkly".

[RightWhale]

I have had many Jewish acquaintances over the years. Some did not mind saying 'Merry Christmas' themselves. If any had a problem, they merely didn't say anything. Not a big deal.

[Alter Kaker]

Real Jews who actually believe in God aren't threatened at all by Christians and they know that it hasn't been Christians persecuting Jews for the past 1000 years - its been atheist socialists.

I don't feel particularly threatened by Christians in this day and age, but you mean to tell me you honestly believe that the massacres of Jews in Europe all throughout antiquity and the Middle Ages were perpetrated by socialists? Were the Crusaders socialists?

[bpjam]

Dude, lets try to keep this out of Biblical times and into a somewhat modern framework. The people killing the Jews in the bible were anti-semetic they were just protecting or trying to gain power (the French and English did it for a long time but there was no ideology behind it). Look around the world for the past 100 years and see who the anti-semetics are - socialists and dictators (and frequently socialist dictators). Anti-Semetism is arguably the oldest ideology on Earth. Its older than capitalism or communism.

[Alter Kaker]

Dude, lets try to keep this out of Biblical times and into a somewhat modern framework.

1. Please don't call me "dude."

2. You're the one who said, "it hasn't been Christians persecuting Jews for the past 1000 years - its been atheist socialists." Unless you're a lot older than I am, 1000 years isn't a "somewhat modern framework." And lots of genuine believing Christians have killed lots of Jews --- not just "atheist socialists." Look at the Crusades, look at the Reconquista, look at the pogroms, and at hundreds if not thousands of massacres in every country in Europe, the vast majority of which were done by Christians, often in the name of their religion.

[GOP_1900AD]

I believe, IIRC, that Jews for Jesus respect those last Old Testament books. So there is actually a third faction beyond modern Jews and Christians. Albeit a rather small faction at present. It will be interesting to see what the future brings.

[kanecorp]

I'm Jewish - I love the Christmas season and don't want to see it go!

[Cecily]

Easter is another "Christianized" pagan holiday. My church celebrates Christ's resurrection as Resurrection Day to keep the focus on Him, and not the Easter bunny, eggs, etc.

[familyop]

Yes. Hellenization, with so many assumed cultures, even after the Greek split, affected all religions in the Roman Empire--Judaism included. The Hebrew Torah survived it, mainly due to the strict rules for keeping it the same (language, experience requirements for scribes, exactness of details in letters, all copies in a generation must match each other and previous ones exactly,...). But many sect offshoots began, especially in areas away from Jerusalem, like Alexandria. The Theraputae (Essenes, Ascetics,...) were but one such sect.

It's a very interesting study for the few who try.

[A. Pole]

Yes. Hellenization, with so many assumed cultures, even after the Greek split, affected all religions in the Roman Empire--Judaism included. The Hebrew Torah survived it, mainly due to the strict rules for keeping it the same (language, experience requirements for scribes, exactness of details in letters, all copies in a generation must match each other and previous ones exactly,...).

Hebrew text could not by definition (although it has Egyptian and Mesopotamian influences since God used the stay of Jews in these two lands to inspire the Jewish religion).

But removal of deutero canonical books could not reverse much the advance of Jewish culture under influence of Greeks. No culture escaped the Greek influence with the exception of Aztecs and Incas until coming of Spaniards.

Late Talmudic commentators were influenced, sages like Maimonides were influenced and even Kabbalists developed neo-platonic concepts.