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To: 11th_VA

Instead of calling Bush names, I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?

I submit to you, it's not possible. Today or any day. I know that the approach Bush and past presidents has taken were responsible for this mess, but there is simply no easy fix. I would support a complete sealing of the Border with walls, fences or whatever. But, we're never going to get 13 million people out.. Our only option is to make them legal residents who become subject to behaviorial discipline, finacial responsibility OR deportation.

A resident alien, or guest worker CAN be deported if they violate laws. This program just gets them on the books. I disagree with those who call it an Amnesty without a more logical idea to back up thier views


104 posted on 11/29/2005 9:07:32 PM PST by Greenpees (Coulda Shoulda Woulda)
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To: Greenpees
Instead of calling Bush names, I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?

That would be a refreshing change

109 posted on 11/29/2005 9:16:26 PM PST by Mo1 (Message to Democrats .... We do not surrender and run from a fight !!)
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To: Greenpees
I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?

Easy.

A) Close down the border. When you're bleeding to death, the first order of business is to staunch the wound.

B) Remove the financial incentive for being here. That can be accomplished very quickly by making the hiring of illegals costly...very costly....to the employers. The Bush Administration has signally failed to do this...to simply enforce the laws that are already on the books. BTW, in his speech, you will notice that he didn't talk of punishing these scofflaws. Quite the contrary. He spoke of HELPING them!

C) Step up interior enforcement. Come on. Communities all over America have illegals everywhere now. It's no secret, and no mystery where to find them.

By the way, your 'thirteen million' figure is a joke. It's more like thirty million plus.

110 posted on 11/29/2005 9:16:34 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Greenpees
the fourteenth amendment cannot include illegals, in other
words, no anchors.

fine the employers 10 thousand first offense,
1 million second offense multiply each offense
times 10.

I know of no other way, but people are going to die,
no matter if something is done, or is not done at
this point...
this has been allowed to go on for too long.....
feed the alligator now, and wait to be eaten or
kill the alligator are the only solutions. the court will have to be removed from this situation. legislation can help or a writ.
111 posted on 11/29/2005 9:17:27 PM PST by no-to-illegals ((every illegal displaces an America worker increasing welfare rolls))
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To: Greenpees
Instead of calling Bush names, I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?

Ok I'll bite

If we can't get them out of the woodwork and make them legal then Bush's plan is a failure anyway.

What we need to do is eliminate the draw to this country.

1Eliminate anchor babies

2 Make a counterfeit proof identification/social security card for all aliens. If need be add in citizens.

3 Warn employers that sanctions will be enforced and that all employees will be checked.

4. Warn all illegals to leave the country within 3 months or face formal deportation and ineligibility for any new guest worker program.

5 Challenge the law (decision)giving illegal children the right to a free education (circumstances have changed dramatically since that decision

6 Federal law prohibiting driver's license or other priveledges for illegals

7 Eliminate foreign aid to countries that entice illegal immigration.

8 If illegals are leaving begin planning an aboveboard guest worker plan:

One year at a time, must return home at end of year. No families Single people only females get pregnant must return home. Employers to pay all benefits and bond to guarantee each employee returns at end of contract. All Jobs must be offered to US citizens first at pre-illegal immigration rates or higher.

First thing to do is have the President of the US say enough is enough we will not reward illegals with amnesty or a guest worker program, and tell them to go home. (LOL yeah right Bush'll do it)

Tancredo's plan is similar, calls for enforcement before any guest workers.

I submit to you, it's not possible. Today or any day. I know that the approach Bush and past presidents has taken were responsible for this mess, but there is simply no easy fix. I would support a complete sealing of the Border with walls, fences or whatever. But, we're never going to get 13 million people out.. Our only option is to make them legal residents who become subject to behaviorial discipline, finacial responsibility OR deportation.

Easy Fix? No it takes desire. I see you give up, what other laws should we abandon?

A resident alien, or guest worker CAN be deported if they violate laws

Then why can't one who entered illegally be deported?

121 posted on 11/29/2005 9:35:56 PM PST by rolling_stone (Question Authority!)
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To: Greenpees
How do we deal with those that are already here? Simple, we get Terrible Tom Toncredo and his true believer brigade to go house to house dragging the out. After they are done, Tom and the gang are going to pick strawberries and sing happy songs.
138 posted on 11/29/2005 10:34:41 PM PST by bybybill (GOD help us if the Rats win)
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To: Greenpees
RE: "This [the President's] program just gets them on the books."

I totally agree with you that deporting or otherwise getting millions and millions of people to leave is damn near impossible.

Here's the problem from my view.

The "guest workers" advocates are the same ones who have ignored enforcement year after year -- IMO they have virtually invited people to come here by any means necessary.

Now the "guest workers" advocates tell us that we have to get these people out into the open.

Most are already in the "open." Yet the "guest workers" advocates do nothing except talk, talk, promise, promise, wink-wink, nudge-nudge.

How are ILLEGALS already out in the open? There are at least two ways. One is the IRS individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) and the other is the SSA's Earnings Suspense File (ESF). Neither way can identify ILLEGAL immigrants in the "underground" economy but it's a problem identifying citizens also.

ITIN's are provided for people who cannot get a SSN as I understand it. The ESF contains W-2 data from employers. The employees' SSNs are bogus or stolen and, I believe, the ESF contains employees using ITINs. None match the SSA Master Earnings File.

The IRS / SSA send "no match" letters to employers which exceed a threshold of mismatches and they send "no match" letters to individual employees -- almost ten million letters to employees.

The SSA "no match" letters have no enforcement and the IRS does very, very little beyond sending the letters. Neither the IRS nor the SSA will cooperate with immigration authorities, to the best of my knowledge.

I don't have a plan to "make 'em leave." I am tired of government B.S.

Let the two Parties stand up, tell us that unlimited migrant labor is the way it's going to be, and we citizens can pound salt. At least they'd be telling the truth.

147 posted on 11/29/2005 10:50:15 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (Move over Henny Youngman.. please! "The most trusted news source." CNN)
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To: Greenpees
I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?

It's been posted on FR hundreds of times.

Stop employers from hiring illegals, cut off welfare to illegals and enforce the 14th Amendment as it was intended, and 90% of your illegals will leave on their own at no cost to the American public.

By they way; If we can deport 1, we can deport 13 million.

227 posted on 11/30/2005 5:08:09 AM PST by Marine Inspector (Government is not the solution to our problem; Government is the problem)
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To: Greenpees
I disagree with those who call it an Amnesty without a more logical idea to back up thier views

Perhaps you should write to Webster's and have them rewrite their definition:

amnesty

n 1: a period during which offenders are exempt from punishment 2: a warrant granting release from punishment for an offense [syn: pardon] 3: the formal act of liberating someone [syn: pardon, free pardon] v : grant a pardon to (a group of people)

232 posted on 11/30/2005 5:51:55 AM PST by raybbr
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To: Greenpees
"Instead of calling Bush names, I would like to see one person on this thread propose some practical idea to get 13 Million people out of the woodwork, and become legal. Or, for that matter, explain to me how one goes about having law enforcement deport 13 Million Illegal alliens?"

Your first sentence is Amnesty. That is totally unacceptable in any way, shape or form.

As for how to deport the illegals already here. That can be done through strict enforcement of the laws currently on the books. Laws pertaining to hiring of illegals. Also, make it mandatory to provide proof of legal US citizenship before a person Can get access to social services / schooling/ welfare, etc.

The illegals will self deport in short order if this plan is followed through.
239 posted on 11/30/2005 7:24:26 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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