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To: Myrddin

"No unclean thing can enter into the presence of God (see Rev 21:27)."

Contra:
Jesus was God (Gospel of John).
Unclean things were all about him, all the time.
Adam and Eve sinned, and God came and talked to them before casting them out. They were unclean, but in God's presence.

At any rate, the Bible does not bind God.
Revelation states "No unclean thing can enter into the presence of God." But if that is so, it is only because God chooses it to be so. He is God, He need not have it so. He chooses it to be so, and demands that it be so, and therefore demands that sins be paid...including by the sacrifice of His innocent Son. It was not NECESSARY that this happen, because nothing is required of God. God CHOSE for this to happen (assuming that our theology is actually correct). Which means that the reason that sin needs to be paid for is because God says so, and he says so because He feels like it, because by definition nothing can bind God, so there is truly no "necessary" with God.


339 posted on 11/30/2005 7:06:02 AM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
God CHOSE for this to happen (assuming that our theology is actually correct). Which means that the reason that sin needs to be paid for is because God says so, and he says so because He feels like it...

I often wonder what the psychology of God actually is so that he would choose one thing over another, or be motivated to feel one way and not another. Why does he feel that way?
343 posted on 11/30/2005 7:15:20 AM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: Vicomte13
"No unclean thing can enter into the presence of God (see Rev 21:27)."

Contra: Jesus was God (Gospel of John). Unclean things were all about him, all the time. Adam and Eve sinned, and God came and talked to them before casting them out. They were unclean, but in God's presence.

You have changed the context. In his mortal state, Jesus is clearly identifiable as the Son of God. Following his resurrection, he admonished Mary to "touch him not" as he had not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17). He clearly differentiates himself from God in this verse. The prayers he offers to God are directed to His Father not himself.

In Matthew 24:36, Jesus indicates that only his Father knows when he will return.

Adam and Eve were still living. The topic is whether they will return to God's presence after their mortal death.

At any rate, the Bible does not bind God. Revelation states "No unclean thing can enter into the presence of God." But if that is so, it is only because God chooses it to be so. He is God, He need not have it so. He chooses it to be so, and demands that it be so, and therefore demands that sins be paid...including by the sacrifice of His innocent Son. It was not NECESSARY that this happen, because nothing is required of God. God CHOSE for this to happen (assuming that our theology is actually correct). Which means that the reason that sin needs to be paid for is because God says so, and he says so because He feels like it, because by definition nothing can bind God, so there is truly no "necessary" with God.

God's word is his bond. He must be eternally consistent with any stated policy. His policy is that He will not tolerate an unclean thing in His presence. Allowing us free will set the stage for most of us to become unclean. There were two "fixes" for the problem. Lucifer (Satan) offered to force everyone to be perfect in exchange for ascending the throne of God. Jesus offered to risk living a sinless life among us to set up the unjust circumstance of having a sinless man punished for the sins of all men. Jesus understood the consequences before he volunteered. He succeeded in his mission, thus providing an avenue by which God the Father could have us return to His presence by virtue of having our sins forgiven by His Son Jesus. In addition to solving the problem of how we can return to the presence of God, Jesus also solved the issue of physical death via resurrection.

I suspect their are many people today that have no concept of what it means to be honorable. They have no concept of moral absolutes. We have to rely on written contracts enforceable by the government in place of a verbal agreement and a handshake. To suggest that God is not honorable in this fashion demonstrates a misunderstanding of his nature. He is not a fickle relativist.

579 posted on 11/30/2005 10:05:26 PM PST by Myrddin
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