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To: Knute
"Perhaps they will also examine the concept of Purgatory. I have not seen any Biblical basis for it either."

No! They will NEVER dispense with Purgatory. That is a doctrine of the church and it will never change. There is a biblical basis for it. St Paul talks about a person being saved, "but only as through fire." Meaning a person is purified of his sins by the cleansing fire of purgatory after which he is saved - fit to enter heaven. Jesus opened the gates of heaven by his death on the cross. By his death he took away the eternal punishment for sin but not the temporal punishment. In other words, when you commit a sin you cannot expect to escape the consequences of that sin. If you kill someone the earthly or temporal consequences is jail time or the death penalty. You can be sorry for that sin and Jesus will forgive and you can go to heaven but not until you have paid a penalty for it, either on earth, such as going to jail or in purgatory if you have not made up for the sin while on earth. The doctrine of Purgatory is both biblical and logical.

As for limbo it was always only theological speculation. Thomas Aquinas I believe. He said that original sin alone did not merit the pains of hell UNLESS actual sin was added to it. Babies can't commit sin so he speculated that because of original sin without actual sin they go to limbo which is a place of natural or earthly happiness (but not the ultimate bliss of being face to face with God. )I actually think it is a very reassuring idea. But it was never a doctrine of the Church so it is entirely permitted to dispense with it.

250 posted on 11/29/2005 6:53:50 PM PST by Hound of the Baskervilles (Liberals are unfit for citizenship in a country that values freedom and courage.)
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To: Hound of the Baskervilles

“There is a biblical basis for it. St Paul talks about a person being saved, but only as through fire, meaning a person is purified of his sins by the cleansing fire of purgatory after which he is saved - fit to enter heaven.”

Is this the passage to which you prefer:

1 Peter 1:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
………………………………………………………………………………………
If so, that is not a worthy argument for Purgatory.

That scripture speaks of temptations we receive here, along with how those trials are used to see if we are the real deal:
………………………………………………………………………………………
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
………………………………………………………………………………………
Here is the same general statement written by the Apostle Paul?

………………………………………………………………………………………
1 Corinthians 3
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
………………………………………………………………………………………
If so, that passage is figurative in relation to fire. I can say that because the term “foundation” is also used in a figurative sense immediately before that:

Here is the entire context:
………………………………………………………………………………………

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
………………………………………………………………………………………
That passage doe not give credence to purgatory in any way.

Here is another passage from the Apostle Paul:
………………………………………………………………………………………
Let me know if I have used the wrong verses altogether, because it hardly seems that you’d be referring to these as an argument for purgatory.


589 posted on 12/01/2005 5:43:38 AM PST by Preachin' (Enoch's testimony was that he pleased God: Why are we still here?)
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