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To: Claud
OK, lets set aside the original sin concepts, which, by the way, I think have been distorted by Protestantism in the West. From an Orthodox perspective, there is nothing we can do to effect the "amount" of God's grace shed upon us. God's grace falls equally on the good and holy and the evil. The issue really is how we respond to that grace. If we accept it, we are lead to a life in which we die to the self and become more and more focused on Christ. By gradually dying to the self, the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts, the eye of the soul becomes clear and focuses our complete being on Christ. +Symeon the New Theologian put it well, and in accord with the Fathers thusly:

"'Can a man take fire into his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?' (Prov. 6:27) says the wise Solomon. And I say: can he, who has in his heart the Divine fire of the Holy Spirit burning naked, not be set on fire, not shine and glitter and not take on the radiance of the Deity in the degree of his purification and penetration by fire? For penetration by fire follows upon purification of the heart, and again purification of the heart follows upon penetration by fire, that is, inasmuch as the heart is purified, so it receives Divine grace, and again inasmuch as it receives grace, so it is purified. When this is completed (that is, purification of heart and acquisition of grace have attained their fullness and perfection), through grace a man becomes wholly a god."

+Gregory Palamas teaches us:

"The grace of deification thus transcends nature, virtue and knowledge, and `all these things are inferior to it.[+Maximos]' Every virtue and imitation of God on our part indeed prepares those who practice them for divine union, but the mysterious union itself is effected by grace. It is through grace that `the entire Divinity comes to dwell in fullness in those deemed worth,' and all the saints in their entire being dwell in God, receiving God in His wholeness, and gaining no other reward for their ascent to Him than "God Himself."

But:

"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostases. As we have seen, those privileged to be united to God so as to become one spirit with Him (as St. Paul said, 'He who cleaves to the Lord is one spirit with Him') are not united to God with respect to His essence, since all theologians testify that with respect to His essence God suffers no participation.

Moreover, the hypostatic union is fulfilled only in the case of the Logos, the God-man.

Thus those privileged to attain union with God are united to Him with respect to His energy; and the 'spirit', according to which they who cleave to God are one with Him, is and is called the uncreated energy of the Holy Spirit, but not the essence of God..." +Gregory Palamas

"Now, supposing there is a soul who dies without these supernatural gifts AND who has not by *actual and personal* sin sentenced himself to the torments of Hell. What happens to this soul?"

Some in Orthodoxy would say that he is condemned. Others, and I think they are a majority, maintain that we do not know what would happen and to firmly declare otherwise is to assert some limitation on the power of the Holy Spirit.
209 posted on 11/29/2005 5:58:40 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
OK, lets set aside the original sin concepts, which, by the way, I think have been distorted by Protestantism in the West.

Agreed.

"The grace of deification thus transcends nature, virtue and knowledge, and `all these things are inferior to it.[+Maximos]'

Precisely! :) As we'd say in Latin, "super natura". For us to live in heaven we must be transformed, as if we were fish being reconfigured to live out of water. "No one can see the face of God and live".

Some in Orthodoxy would say that he is condemned. Others, and I think they are a majority, maintain that we do not know what would happen and to firmly declare otherwise is to assert some limitation on the power of the Holy Spirit.

Interesting. Now by condemned, what sense do we mean? Condemned to an existence without theosis, or condemned to the torments of hell? Based on what I know of the Greek Fathers, I would guess the former alone.

311 posted on 11/30/2005 6:00:43 AM PST by Claud
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