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1 posted on 11/29/2005 1:19:19 PM PST by hubbubhubbub
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To: hubbubhubbub; ex-Texan; Jack Black; A. Pole

Don't worry, folks will be along shortly to assure us that "It's different this time."

Of course, they can never give an historical example of ever-expanding fiat money systems coming to a good end.


2 posted on 11/29/2005 1:26:08 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: hubbubhubbub

I'm confused.

Too many big words.



3 posted on 11/29/2005 1:28:17 PM PST by Fighting Irish
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To: hubbubhubbub
I'm not so sure this is such a big deal. Of course banks don't keep "reserves" in their vaults to cover any more than a tiny fraction of the outstanding deposits. That's basically what a bank is -- an institution where borrowers and lenders can exchange money without ever dealing directly with each other.

The scene from Frank Capra's "It's a Wonderful Life" in which George Bailey uses his honeymoon funds to help the family-owned building/loan company weather a run on cash deposits is particularly instructive. When one of the customers tries to withdraw a huge sum of money, Bailey points out: "We don't have that kind of cash here -- we'll fill out a form for you, and you can get your cash next week when the bank down the street opens."

When the customer protested, Bailey explained it quite clearly: "Your money is in the mortgage on Fred's house, and the mortgage on Bert's house, etc. You want us to call all of these loans from people who can't pay them in full -- just so you can get more cash than you need for a week?"

4 posted on 11/29/2005 1:41:13 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

5 posted on 11/29/2005 1:45:50 PM PST by Petronski (Cyborg is the greatest blessing I have ever known.)
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To: hubbubhubbub
Banks cannot fulfill all of their contracts if demand occurred at the same time.

Neither can their customers, since the banks could technically respond to a run on cash deposits by calling all of their outstanding loans simultaneously. I don't know too many people who are capable of paying off the entire balance on their 30-year mortgage on short notice.

7 posted on 11/29/2005 1:49:26 PM PST by Alberta's Child (What it all boils down to is that no one's really got it figured out just yet.)
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To: hubbubhubbub

I've heard that's why our prison population is so large....when someone becomes incarcerated bonds are created on that person.......not sure who gets the $ though.


8 posted on 11/29/2005 1:50:43 PM PST by american spirit (Can you handle the truth? - www.rbnlive.com ( 4-6 CST M-F)) / click "listen live")
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To: hubbubhubbub; All

I am interested in this subject but due to natural lack of smarts and no education I can't for the life of me read the whole thing and grasp its import.

If you or any other smart person here wouldn't mind summarizing the main points, I'd appreciate it. Don't bother if you don't want to, I don't have any money anyway. Academic interest, and how it affects/will affect TIG. (Things In General.)


10 posted on 11/29/2005 2:00:50 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: hubbubhubbub

I'm not sure what the author feels so conspiratorial about. Nothing he wrote about is new, secret, or particularly complicated. Any 200-level econ textbook will present this same information much more directly and clearly.


13 posted on 11/29/2005 2:10:20 PM PST by Turbopilot (Nothing in the above post is or should be construed as legal research, analysis, or advice.)
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To: hubbubhubbub

The bottom line of the fractional reserve banking system is that as long as the money supply expands at the rate of the interest being charged, everything is ok.

But the expansion is based on consumption.

When the consumption trend slows or even goes negative, there is big trouble.

The fractional reserve banking system is a form of theft.

Imagine, and this will be difficult but try to imagine that the number of dollars in circulation were limited to a finite number of dollars. What would happen then is that the money would, over time, buy more and more. The value of the money as measured in things, would go up.

That is an honest system. Its also impossible to steal from the common man with that system. So the fractional reserve system was created.

And just to put a point on it, citing the example from a wonderful life above, its not your money that was used for freds mortgage. Its conjured up money created at a multiple of ten times or more what you have on deposit that was used to pay freds mortgage.

If its really your money, you should be able to put your hands on all of it at any time you want. But that can not be done. Its why FDR declared "bank holidays". We will see this phenomenon again in the next ten years.


14 posted on 11/29/2005 2:12:24 PM PST by Pylot
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To: hubbubhubbub; Mase; expat_panama; 1rudeboy; nopardons; justshutupandtakeit; ChessExpert
The Treasury sells bonds to the public. The bonds the public does not buy, the Treasury deposits with the Federal Reserve.

Does anyone know of a time when the Treasury was unable to sell all the bonds it offered for sale? Does anyone have an example of the Federal Reserve buying bonds during an auction?

Which means that 90% of the money supply is non-existent, nothing more than a fleeting illusion.

Why is this bad?

18 posted on 11/29/2005 2:20:13 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (The Federal Reserve did not kill JFK. Greenspan was not on the grassy knoll.)
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To: hubbubhubbub

The greenback is now called "funny money". For a reason.


55 posted on 11/29/2005 5:51:24 PM PST by cynicom
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To: hubbubhubbub

Thanks


64 posted on 11/29/2005 6:23:19 PM PST by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: hubbubhubbub

With the Gold Standard, it "Costs money to create money." That is both the advantage and disadvantage if the gikd standard. To create money, the government has to buy gold. That puts a big damper on expansion of the money supply. The advantange to the gold standard is that there is no inflation with it. Unfortunately, that's the only advantage. It also stymies economic growth - the money supply may not expand fast enough to keep up with bursts in the economy.

The classic example of hyperinflation - Weimar Germany in the 1920s - occurred because of massive deficit spending in the face of almost no tax revenue.


97 posted on 11/29/2005 10:30:57 PM PST by Toskrin (It didn't seem nostalgic when I was doing it)
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To: hubbubhubbub; Pylot
For those of you who can't be bothered to read all of Walter Williams short essay above, let me reprint the concluding paragraph:

So what about the president's nomination of Ben S. Bernanke as Alan Greenspan's replacement? I know little or nothing about the man. What I do know is that it's not wise for one person, or group of persons, to have so much power over our economy. Here's my recommendation for reducing that power: Repeal legal tender laws and eliminate all taxes on gold, silver and platinum transactions. That way, Americans could write contracts in precious metals and thereby reduce the ability of government to steal from us.

99 posted on 11/29/2005 11:01:44 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: hubbubhubbub

So many falsehoods, so little time. Is this an attempt at humor maybe?


115 posted on 11/30/2005 6:49:28 AM PST by narses (St Thomas says “lex injusta non obligat”)
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To: hubbubhubbub

ping


203 posted on 12/01/2005 7:42:24 AM PST by alrea
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To: hubbubhubbub

Has anyone introduced the question of F.D.I.C. insurance, which covers, or is supposed to cover, losses/shortages in any bank that's a part of the Federal Reserve system? That's another financial fiction.


237 posted on 12/01/2005 8:47:49 PM PST by mukraker
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To: hubbubhubbub

That was great...good post


240 posted on 12/02/2005 11:12:32 AM PST by antaresequity (PUSH 1 FOR ENGLISH, PUSH 2 TO BE DEPORTED)
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To: hubbubhubbub
I found this article from two years ago on the Fed and was wondering if anybody had changed their minds since then.


BUMP

262 posted on 12/07/2007 9:29:21 AM PST by Vet_6780
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