Indian Air Force, in war games, gives US a run

Christian Science Monitor ^ | November 28, 2005 | Scott Baldauf

[ClearCase_guy]

My interpretation: Let's send China a message -- there's a billion people to your West. They're tough. They have good relations with the West. Don't try anything.

[martin_fierro]

this month's Cope India 2005 war games were billed as a standard two-week exercise between Indian and American top guns.

TOP GUNGA!

[Anti-Bubba182]

I have heard of theses results before. The future of US air superiority does not depend on the F16 or even the F15. The F-22 and other planes are to replace the older equipment.

The results of these tests should reinforce the case for the new fighters.

[DoughtyOne]

That may be a good point.

[LibFreeOrDie]

TOP GUNGA!

LOL! A great title for a Bollywood production...

[JasonC]

The SU-30 is a serious airplane. The Indians have 50 or so of them and are headed for 200. Similar story for the Chinese. The F-22 is better, but 70s era US designs are not quite in its class. Pilot skill can make it about even. You are right, the moral is bring a Raptor. Kudos to the Indian pilots for being good enough to bring that out, btw.

[Pukin Dog]

The article claims "US Fighter prowess waning".

Please raise your hand if you believe any nation wants to take on our Fighters when we aint playin?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Any hands?

Nobody knows how well the US does during wartime situations, because we dont talk about it, and the other guy is dead, and therefore not talking either.

[Mr Rogers]

From the article:

Yet, while the Indian Air Force designed the exercises to India's advantage - forcing pilots to fight "within visual range" rather than using America's highly advanced "beyond visual range" sensing equipment - both observers and participants admit that Indian aircraft and personnel performed much better than expected.

The Su-30 MKI "is an amazing jet that has a lot of maneuverability," Capt. Martin Mentch told an Air Force publication, AFPN. Maneuverability is key for missions of visual air combat.

---

If it has degraded to a visual fight, the USAF has already screwed up. Visual fights are, IMHO, very unlikely in future warfare. Too many heat seeking missiles can shoot across the circle. And most of the advancements made in the last 10 years have been designed to prevent the close in fight from developing.

That doesn't mean Migs (or the Su) are bad airplanes, or that the IAF is a poor air force. For many years, the biggest limit on soviet-style air forces was their tactics, not their equipment. Correct the tactics (and India has plenty of techno-savy pilots now), and you can quickly make a quantum leap forward in capability.

[Fred Hayek]

This is the "hidden" message that the lamestream media seems to be missing all along. The Indian Air Force just completed a very successful joint training exercise with the United States Air Force. It was of course to India's benefit, and proves the training of the IAF (much of it from Israel). It also quickly proved that they can mopre than competently work in joint operations. And that message is aimed at Mainland China.

[Blueflag]

And just what were the ROE? Was it all ACM?

Need more data.

Only the Israelis could kick out butts to a 50:50.

[COEXERJ145]

Last time we battled the Indian Air Force, the engagements were setup so the USAF would lose.

[Boundless]

> I have heard of theses results before. The future of US
> air superiority does not depend on the F16 or even the
> F15. The F-22 and other planes are to replace the older
> equipment.

Consider the Dem spin if the F16s clobbered the Sus
decisively: "This proves we didn't need the F15,
and don't need the F22, much less the F35".

[Pukin Dog]

The SU-30 is a serious airplane.

Really?

Do you mean the ones that manage to fly once or twice a month without needing serious maintenance? Which ones would those be?

Every couple of months, we get these BS stories. It is P-R-O-P-G-A-N-D-A.

[ncountylee]

And that message is aimed at Mainland China.

BINGO!

[SirChas]

In most cases, the Indians responded to target assignments faster than the American pilots did - a surprising fact, given that this was the first time Indian pilots had used the American AWACS capability.

This is a MAJOR point! If there were a real fight, we would not be giving the enemy vectors to our aircraft.

When you put our total "package" together, we could probably put some new missiles on a C-130 and knock the enemy out of the sky before they detected us.

[Pukin Dog]

No, not even the Israelis.

The US does not fight fair, except in these BS exercises.

When Israel needs to spend billions on weapons, it is a good idea to let them win a few fights to keep some political mouths shut.

[txzman]

agree with you Pukin. But that's OK too - let the Indians believe their own press releases - just like the Egyptians did.

[Pukin Dog]

Its a small point.

We don't need our 'total package' to win these fights.

We just need permission.

We don't get permission unless the job is to kill someone. The US always loses these for the sake of PR.

[RightOnline]

It's all silliness and stupid chest-thumping.

The only pilots on earth who could conceivably stand toe-to-toe with American pilots would be the Israelis...and I'm not too sure about them these days (20 years ago? no doubt).

Are the Indians 'bad pilots'? Heavens no. Smart people, educated people, no doubt very skilled. Are they the battle-tested warriors our pilots are? No. Are they using superior hardware in these games? Yes. Would they stand up to our pilots using our newest generation fighters? No contest.

Still........who cares???? Jeez, people.....we're freakin' ALLIES. Doesn't anyone (including the Indian media or the politically correct American media) remember that???