Bush visit [Tucson] highlights GOP rifts on border

The Arizona Daily Star ^ | 11.27.2005 | Mitch Tobin

[Borax Queen]

Guest-worker plan to top Monday agenda

Hoping to straddle a fracture in the Republican Party, President Bush is due in Tucson on Monday to promote his border and immigration policies.

The 2:40 p.m. speech at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base is the president's only scheduled stop here.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff are expected to appear with the president at D-M.

With the backing of businesses who need foreign employees, Bush is pushing a guest-worker program that would let undocumented workers obtain three-year work visas. Workers could extend that for another three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

"Our Border Patrol and immigration agents are doing a fine job, but we still have a problem," Bush said in his Oct. 22 radio address.

"If an employer has a job that no American is willing to take, we need to find a way to fill that demand by matching willing employers with willing workers from foreign countries on a temporary and legal basis."

The proposal has alienated many conservative Republicans who feel it gives amnesty to people who have entered the country illegally.

There are an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants living in the United States.

Competing guest-worker proposals have been introduced in Congress, which is expected to take up the contentious issue early next year:

- Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., support legislation that would allow illegal border crossers to work in the United States for up to six years.

- Sens. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and John Cornyn, R-Texas, are backing a plan that would force undocumented workers to first return to their home country to apply for a guest worker permit.

- Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., wants to grant legal status to undocumented workers who have paid taxes and lived in the United States for five years if they pass security checks, pay a $2,000 fine and demonstrate English proficiency.

Rank-and-file Republicans may be less divided on the immigration issue than GOP politicians in Washington, D.C.

An October poll of 807 likely Republican voters found 72 percent supported a plan with increased border security, tougher penalties on employers who hire illegal workers and a temporary worker program in which applicants could gain citizenship if they live crime-free, learn English and pay taxes. GOP pollster Ed Goeas conducted the national survey.

Bush signed a spending bill for Homeland Security last month that includes funding for 1,000 new Border Patrol agents and a 10 percent increase in the holding capacity of detention facilities for border crossers.

Earlier this month, Chertoff unveiled Homeland Security's Secure Border Initiative, which will add 100 deportation officers, 250 criminal investigators and 400 immigration enforcement agents to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

The initiative also seeks to eliminate the department's policy of releasing border crossers with a promise to appear in court. Most of these entrants never show up for hearings under the so-called "catch and release" policy.

Tune in to see Bush on TV

-Tucsonans who want to see President Bush during his visit to town Monday will have to turn on their televisions.

Bush's speech at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base will not be open to the public.

"He's not leaving the base, so nothing will be affected as far as road closures," said Officer Lisa Peasley, a Tucson Police Department spokeswoman.

KVOA-TV Channel 4 and KGUN-TV Channel 9 plan to carry Bush's 2:40 p.m. speech live.

[raybbr]

It is 2 months old and the lower level gym housing 4 basket ball courts has been closed due to a water leak and they are now replacing the floor. The showers have had a hot water problem now for about 1 week.

Is that a problem with the engineering or the labor? I seriously doubt it was the labor.

[Dane]

Is that a problem with the engineering or the labor? I seriously doubt it was the labor

And you know this how?

[dufekin]

Yeah, and our economy is now WORSE than the Great Depression--the DNC has certified it true! No employer needs foreign workers so long as the idiot Bush remains President, given the huge numbers of desperate Americans. This scheme, therefore, merely constitutes a charade to punish hard-working immigrants and other Democrats, especially women and children whose husbands and fathers the cruel Bush Administration has butchered in Iraq in its failed quest for oil. (Is that the DNC stance?)

[raybbr]

The big dig in Boston.

Dane, you are a relentless American basher.

You are blaming American laborers and not the true source of the problem; the engineering.

[Dane]

Dane, you are a relentless American basher.

You are blaming American laborers and not the true source of the problem; the engineering.

I'm not an American basher, I'm a union basher, but what the heck you must be some shop steward getting his skim from the union dues.

[onja]

Cool. That's where I am.

[dufekin]

Let's face facts here: under the insidious subsidized decadence and failure of public welfare, a person gets more compensation (cash and benefits like food stamps and Medicaid) NOT to work [legally, leading many to pursue under-the-table careers as drug dealers and prostitutes] than to work legitimately. A mother gets more compensation to bear the children of unknown and disparate fathers than to remain married and cohabitated with the father of her first child.

The federal government, through its arcane public-welfare system, actively encourages and indeed subsidizes impoverished (especially black) fathers to abandon their wives and take up a life of crime. Perhaps the object of our scorn then should be the Johnson Administration officials who initiated this craziness in a War on Poverty that we would call better a "war on the morality of impoverished families and families of color" and the odious Congress-critters who perpetuate this subsidized failure every year.

[staytrue]

the engineering or the labor?

The hot water is almost certainly a labor problem because that is not exactly rocket science to get that right. Plus the water was fine for 2 month.

The gym I don't know. It was open for about 3 weeks when they closed half of it due to water. The full gym is now closed (probably due to dust) while they replace the floor.

[Borax Queen]

:)

[mthom]

And unskilled mexican labor would have prevented this how?

[Willie Green]

I'm not an American basher, I'm a union basher,

No, you bash anything that may cause your sweat glands to activate.

[mthom]

Youre irrational. Tancredo would probably not be turned away from the public White House tour as well! Shocking. You dont really think Bush is that petty do you? Keeping someone with a different point of view off the physical grounds of the White House? It would be quite enough to deny Tancredo meaningful access to the president and his staff.

[raybbr]

The hot water is almost certainly a labor problem because that is not exactly rocket science to get that right.

Do you have a link to the story? I couldn't find anything on Google.

It's not necessarily the labor. It could be the boiler, zone valves, etc. Soldering pipes or installing plastic piping is pretty straightforward.

[staytrue]

The original quote was "Maybe that's why so many of the expensive homes around here have problems soon after they are built..."

My response was basically, that using citizen labor may not be any better witness the problems at the OSU gym.

[RJL]

Bush is pushing a guest-worker program that would let undocumented workers obtain three-year work visas. Workers could extend that for another three years, but would then have to return to their home countries for a year to apply for a new work permit.

This plan is the same as amnesty. After they're here for six years they'll never leave.

As the sixth year rolls around the press will have a million stories about Juan and Juanita, about their children, jobs, homes, neighborhood, churches, schools... The politicians will fold in a heartbeat, they'll never be forced to leave.

What's needed:
1. Demonstrable US control of our borders.
2. Make sure employers have the tools to verify citizenship.
3. Fine employers of illegals, jail time for repeat offenders.
4. Remove anchor baby rights.
5. Make all law enforcement responsible for enforcing immigration laws.

Then the Congress can decide who and how many can immigrate, and bring them in on a citizenship track, not a phony guest worker status.

[Jim_Curtis]

Supply (of labor) = Demand (of labor) at the equilibrium (market) price. If you can't find anyone to hire, raise your wages

Which raises the cost of the product or service.

Someone must benefit from the inflated prices and those who do will be the workers. As for the produce industry, the employer can't raise his prices too much so will need to take less profit because the farmers compete with imports.

It's not a bad thing when the poorest become less poor, even if it's at the expense of the better off, when it happens in a fair capitalist free market manner that abides a natural relationship between employer and employee. Bringing in non-Americans to replace your employees because you can pay them less is not a natural relationship between employer and employee...the citizen worker is getting the shaft.

Even if inflation occurs, government expenditures would definitely decrease and quality of life would increase for all citizens.

[staytrue]

There is no news story, although there should be because to spend 120 million and have problems like this is absurd.

I tell you this because I go to this gym about 4 times a week.

This is the rpac (gym) website http://recsports.osu.edu/locations_rpac.asp

contact info is here
http://recsports.osu.edu/contactus.asp

Or call 614) 292-7671 to confirm my 1st person story.

[Dog Gone]

An MBA from Harvard is a "rubber stamp" degree? Do you live on the same planet as the rest of us?

[raybbr]

I would ask the mods to get rid of your phone number fast or you have no idea who will call you.

Thanks for the info. However, without any details I can't judge what the problem is. It is possible it was inferior labor but I don't think so. More like equipment failure. Also, how do you know the subcontractors didn't use immigrant labor, legal or illegal?

[staytrue]

Here is something you might like. The new gym or rpac will cost all students about $76 per quarter or about $230 dollars per academic year regardless of whether you use the gym or not.

Does the mandatory student recreation fee apply to graduate and professional students?
Yes. All Columbus campus students enrolled for 4 or more credit hours at any level—undergraduate, graduate, or professional—are charged a recreation fee (currently $42 per quarter, to increase to $76 per quarter in Summer 2006).