Boeing stretches battle lines - special report on new 747-8

Flight International Online ^ | 25 November 2005 | Andrew Doyle

[freedumb2003]

Good points all.

I guess I was reinforcing your thought -- something about aeronautics in the 60s-70s that made them push the envelope -- pretty much to the limits of physics.

Thats why the 747 continues to operate as an airframe design and why all the other craft I pointed out continue as well.

Heck, the 727 is still operating for FedEx, some charters, as well as a lot of Latin American Airlines.

[COEXERJ145]

The SR-71 is retired and has been for some time while the F-14 will be gone early next year.

[freedumb2003]

THey keep mothballing and unmothballing the SR-71.

As a plane, it continues to be unsurpassed. But the missions can be done through other, cheaper technologies.

Soon all the planes I listed will be gone, starting with the F-14.

But if another hot conflict broke out tomorrow, the F-14 would be there and succeed.

My point is about the staying power of the designs of yore.

[AlaskaErik]

You're right, but I figured I'd let someone with more knowledge explain some of the other reasons for not turning the C-5 into an airliner.

[AlaskaErik]

Let's not forget the greatest military cargo plane of all time...the C-130 Hercules. First flew in 1954 and is still in production today!

[Paleo Conservative]

Let's not forget the greatest military cargo plane of all time...the C-130 Hercules. First flew in 1954 and is still in production today!

And Boeing is going to modernize and standardize those too.

Boeing Accepts First C-130 for Avionics Modernization

ST. LOUIS, January 19, 2005 - The Boeing Company [NYSE:BA] marked the induction of the first U.S. Air Force C-130 into the Avionics Modernization Program (AMP) in San Antonio, Texas today.

This aircraft will undergo a trial installation leading to the modernization of more than 500 U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps C-130 aircraft.

“After four years of hard work by our C-130 AMP team in Long Beach, Calif., St Louis, Mo., and Fort Walton Beach, Fla., the program is performing to plan and we’re on track for first flight in early 2006,” said Pat Finneran, vice president and general manager of Aerospace Support, part of Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.

The C-130 AMP program will standardize aircraft configurations with the installation of a fully integrated, night-vision-goggle-compatible digital glass cockpit and provide a reduction in total ownership costs for the U.S. Air Force. The new avionics system features digital displays and the proven flight management system from the 737 commercial airliner, both of which provide navigation, safety and communication improvements to meet global air traffic management (GATM) requirements. The GATM upgrade will facilitate the warfighter’s ability to deploy the fleet world-wide.

Aircraft modifications will be performed by the company at its Boeing Aerospace Support Center in San Antonio, employing more than 200 people on the program at full production. Modifications also will be performed by the Air Force at Warner Robins Air Logistics Center, Ga., and Ogden Air Logistics Center, Utah.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is one of the world's largest space and defense businesses. Headquartered in St. Louis , Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is a $27 billion business. It provides network-centric system solutions to its global military, government, and commercial customers. It is a leading provider of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems; the world's largest military aircraft manufacturer; the world's largest satellite manufacturer and a leading provider of space-based communications; the primary systems integrator for U.S. missile defense and Department of Homeland Security; NASA's largest contractor; and a global leader in launch services. ###

[Paleo Conservative]

Boeing C-130 Avionics Upgrade Pre-Development Aircraft Takes Flight
Boeing ^ | March 21, 2005 | Staff

Posted on 03/21/2005 3:22:29 PM CST by Righty_McRight

[Loud Mime]

Can you point me to some links about the 380 runway suits?

It was on the show "Mega Machines." (Discovery Channel?) and had something to do with the wake vortecies and an organ http://www.schnitgerorgel.de/html/body_inzenso-e.html

[freedumb2003]

Very interesting -- thanks for the info

[zipper]

The avionics and stealth of the F-22 is far superior, but the performance can't be.

I recently spoke with someone with 70 hours in the F-22. He says the F-22 uses less fuel at 59,000+ feet at mach 1.95 than it does at 30,000 feet and mach .95. No F-15, F-16, F-18, F-14, or F-anything can touch that.

[Batrachian]

I know. Supercruise is one of the big selling points about it. However, the F-15 is actually a faster plane, and not by a little, and it has greater range and costs anywhere from 1/3rd to 1/5th of the Raptor, depending on how you factor it. What the F-22 has is stealth, avionics, and survivability.

The F-15 marks a high point in fighter aircraft performance that won't be beaten for a long time to come, and when it does it will be by unmanned aircraft that can pull 20-30 gees or more.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Back in the 90s Boeing was going to build a VLA ( very large aircraft ) called the 747-500X - 747-600X.
The 747-600X would have been almost the same size as the A-380 but without the full 2 nd deck.
Boeing would have designed a new wing for it, with less sweptback angle, same fuselage diameter, but longer fuselage.
Boeing tried to see if airlines were interested, but, none were interested in the 747-500X-747-600X.
We can only guess caused Airbus to commit themselves by saying that they were going to build the 747-X planes, and the Sonic Cruiser.
Now that Airbus is fully committed with the Airbus A-380, Boeing comes out with the 787 , and the new 747-8I-8F, and has the 777 as a hot seller, and in a few years Boeing might develop a replacement of the 737.
Some may see that as a strategy, having the competition to commit themselves on a project, invest a huge amount of money and resources, and then, come out with a product that does not hurt your business, and have old standbys that you can improve on.
I am sure Boeing was sincere when they wanted to build the 747-500X-747-600X , but Airlines were just not interested, but, that also kept Airbus off balance.

[gridlock]

Boeing is talking about cost-per-passenger-mile and TCO and efficiency. Airbus is just whipping out it's airplane and saying theirs is the longest. Who do you think is going to win this fight?

The problem with Airbus, as is true with so many government and semi-government operations, is there is no way to kill the "Big Idea". Once the "Big Idea" takes hold, nobody has the authority to tell the bosses that they are full of themselves and no cost pressure makes it impossible, because the semi-government operation can always raid the public purse.

The A380 is going to be a disaster for the Europeans and drag their moribund economies even further into the gutter. But are they going to learn the lesson? Not bloody likely! They will probably blame the whole debacle on unconstrained capitalism and demand even more government control of industry.