Boeing stretches battle lines - special report on new 747-8

Flight International Online ^ | 25 November 2005 | Andrew Doyle

[lowbuck]

More on the Airbus/Boeing dogfight! Enjoy.

[rellimpank]

---Go Boeing!!--although I suspect this "dogfight" is similar to FEMA vs. Walmart in effectiveness of delivery of results--

[neodad]

Pass the popcorn!

[Pukin Dog]

It aint a dogfight, its a turkey shoot.

The A-380 is getting killed. Boeing set them up, and now they are going to knock them down.

[lowbuck]

I've alway wondered if Boeing maneuvered Airbus into committing to the A380 project before moving on to what has become the 787 , the enhanced 777 and now the 747-8.

Cashflow has got to be a major problem for the folks at Airbus, even more so recently, as I read on FR a report that now Air France is expecting a one year delay on their 380's.

"Turkey Shoot" I like it.

[TeddyCon]

Airbus has, for all intents and purposes, been handed its proverbial ass by Boeing pretty much since this whole Airbus/Boeing "competition" - and I'm useg the term loosely - supposedly got serious.

Airbus knows that it is alive today thanks only to the subsidies it receives from the EU and its dipshit citizenry that keeps feedin' it and insisting that Boeing's receiving tax breaks and benefits (etc.) is the same diff to Airbus' living on subsidies.

[Pukin Dog]

It wasnt very hard. They just parroted the "There is no market for a bigger jumbo" until Airbus went out and did all the market research (at considerable cost), then when a market appeared, Boeing just decided to build aircraft more in line with what customers want. They dont want a cattle car that does not take operating costs into consideration. The new jets will sip gas, and cost less to produce and maintain. Airbus is going to suffer like a captured terrorist.

[systematic]

[phantomworker]

I've alway wondered if Boeing maneuvered Airbus into committing to the A380 project before moving on to what has become the 787 , the enhanced 777 and now the 747-8.

Kind of makes you wonder!

Cashflow has got to be a major problem for the folks at Airbus, even more so recently, as I read on FR a report that now Air France is expecting a one year delay on their 380's.

Let them eat cake! Cashflow? The EU will just become more socialist and there will be more handouts to Airbus.

[chipengineer]

>trip costs “25-30% less than the A380”, principally because the Boeing aircraft will weigh 13% less per seat.

Weight per seat sounds like a very significant spec. Does anyone have a comparison of this for the common aircraft?

[Chode]

HA ha...

[RayChuang88]

I think what will really hurt Airbus is the fact the 747-8F freighter will be a hot seller because it will offer more cargo capacity and longer range, too. Also, because the 747-8F can carry outsized lengthwise loads that the A380-800F can't carry, that would also be a huge winner for the cargo airlines also.

[Batrachian]

I find it amazing that a 1960s design like the 747 can be economically viable today. It really shows the quality of the original design, which was actually a military cargo craft design, but when the Air Force went with the C-5 instead, Boeing sold it to the airlines. The rest, as they say, is history.

Well, DC-3s are still flying, too.

[Paulus Invictus]

I just saw a TV special on the C5 Air Force heavy weight lifter that is being up-graded with new engines and other modern electronics. I wonder whey the C5 would not make a good passenger liner by merely adding hundreds of seats in newly designed, two-level cabins with all the passenger bennies? The C5 has a long and great record of speed, 3000 mile reach and a known record of great service. Its new GE engines are not only more powerful, but better on fuel economy too. Anyone know why the C5 would not make a great passenger liner?

[AlaskaErik]

I wonder whey the C5 would not make a good passenger liner by merely adding hundreds of seats in newly designed, two-level cabins with all the passenger bennies?

I believe the technical term would be "piss poor reliability". C-5s break down over half the time. That means every other mission is cancelled or delayed due to maintenance issues. Reminds me of the old joke...You're on an Air Force base and see three C-5s, two of which are sitting on jacks. What can you deduce from this sight?

Answer...The base only has two sets of jacks.

[Paleo Conservative]

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

[Pukin Dog]

Many reasons why the C-5 would not make a good airliner.

One, the sucker is not a comfortable ride. I don't know if the C-5 has a yaw-damper system like modern airliners.

Two, maintenance and cost of operation.

Three, you have to consider turnaround times, gates, taxiways, ramps and divert fields available for in-flight emergencies that could handle that beast.

[Tennessee_Bob]

Answer...The base only has two sets of jacks.

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!

Nothing scarier than sitting outside the engine shop, smoking a cigarette, and looking across the top of the wing as that C-5 turns hard right onto a short final right over your building.

[Dont_Tread_On_Me_888]

Airbus has, for all intents and purposes, been handed its proverbial ass by Boeing pretty much since this whole Airbus/Boeing "competition" - and I'm useg the term loosely - supposedly got serious.

Facts?

Where are your facts?

FACT: Airbus outsold Boeing five years in a row through 2004. As of right now, Boeing leads Airbus for 2005, and it will take a clean sweep by Airbus of the three remaining contracts before year end if Airbus is to surpass Boeing this year. Aitbus has been more than just a competitor. You lack facts on this issue.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

http://www.geae.com/education/genx/theatre/index.html