Posted on 11/25/2005 8:34:07 AM PST by Exton1
KU prof's e-mail irks fundamentalists
http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/living/religion/13252419.htm
Associated Press
LAWRENCE - Critics of a new course that equates creationism and intelligent design with mythology say an e-mail sent by the chairman of the University of Kansas religious studies department proves the course is designed to mock fundamentalist Christians.
In a recent message on a Yahoo listserv, Paul Mirecki said of the course "Special Topics in Religion: Intelligent Design, Creationisms and Other Religious Mythologies":
"The fundies want it all taught in a science class, but this will be a nice slap in their big fat face by teaching it as a religious studies class under the category mythology."
He signed the note "Doing my part (to upset) the religious right, Evil Dr. P."
Kansas Provost David Shulenburger said Wednesday that he regretted the words Mirecki used but that he supported the professor and thought the course would be taught in a professional manner.
"My understanding was that was a private e-mail communication that somehow was moved out of those channels and has become a public document," Shulenburger said.
The course was added to next semester's curriculum after the Kansas State Board of Education adopted new school science standards that question evolution.
The course will explore intelligent design, which contends that life is too complex to have evolved without a "designer." It also will cover the origins of creationism, why creationism is an American phenomenon and creationism's role in politics and education.
State Sen. Karin Brownlee, R-Olathe, said she was concerned by Mirecki's comments in the e-mail.
"His intent to make a mockery of Christian beliefs is inappropriate," she said.
Mirecki said the private e-mail was accessed by an outsider.
"They had been reading my e-mails all along," he said. "Where are the ethics in that, I ask."
When asked about conservative anger directed at him and the new course, Mirecki said: "A lot of people are mad about what's going on in Kansas, and I'm one of them."
Mirecki has been taking criticism since the course was announced.
"This man is a hateful man," said state Sen. Kay O'Connor, R-Olathe. "Are we supposed to be using tax dollars to promote hatred?"
But others support Mirecki.
Tim Miller, a fellow professor in the department of religious studies, said intelligent design proponents are showing that they don't like having their beliefs scrutinized.
"They want their religion taught as fact," Miller said. "That's simply something you can't do in a state university."
Hume Feldman, associate professor of physics and astronomy, said he planned to be a guest lecturer in the course. He said the department of religious studies was a good place for intelligent design.
"I think that is exactly the appropriate place to put these kinds of ideas," he said.
John Altevogt, a conservative columnist and activist in Kansas City, said the latest controversy was sparked by the e-mail.
"He says he's trying to offend us," Altevogt said. "The entire tenor of this thing just reeks of religious bigotry."
Brownlee said she was watching to see how the university responded to the e-mail.
"We have to set a standard that it's not culturally acceptable to mock Christianity in America," she said.
University Senate Executive Committee Governance Office - 33 Strong Hall, 4-5169
Faculty
SenEx Chair
Joe Heppert, jheppert@ku.edu , Chemistry, 864-2270 Ruth Ann Atchley, ratchley@ku.edu , Psychology, 864-9816 Richard Hale, rhale@ku.edu ,Aerospace Engineering, 864-2949 Bob Basow, basow@ku.edu , Journalism, 864-7633 Susan Craig, scraig@ku.edu , Art & Architecture, 864-3020 Margaret Severson, mseverson@Ku.edu , Social Welfare, 864-8952
University Council President Jim Carothers, jbc@ku.edu , English 864-3426 (Ex-officio on SenEx)
Paul Mirecki, Chair The Department of Religious Studies, 1300 Oread Avenue, 102 Smith Hall, College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, University of Kansas,Lawrence, KS 66045-7615 (785) 864-4663 Voice (785) 864-5205 FAX rstudies@ku.edu
I was also not interested in doing your work for you.
Nor qualified, apprently.
Of course, he didn't need to, to use the penicillin to treat disease. But in reality, all he did was observe. Thank God he did, but this isn't an example of high-order thinking.
Who, other than you, gives a rat's behind? Supposedly "Higher order" thinking didn't produce the goods. Fleming did. And he did not just "observe" his lucky accident, he observed biological behavior that he organized and constrained, and had been trained to observe and understand.
You may have noticed before this that technical people are often humor-challenged.
You know, as to this whole discussion, I cannot help but be reminded of the words of the Bard, in expressing suspicion that a person professing innocence may be guilty of the accusation:
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
The founders of my field have been dead for at least 4000 years. I don't know of whom you are speaking.
I concur that you don't know of whom I am speaking, and think I should probably rest my case on that note. You do not have a qualified expert opinion on the scope and meaning of mathematics in the sciences.
Of course you are. If you remove the "higher order thinking", what does that leave? It leaves the sciences you have been continuously insulting as mathematically incompetent since you climbed aboard here.
Methinks thou doth protest too much.
Methinks it annoys me, and deserves to be critically examined, when someone starts spouting, as if an expert, technical sounding claims as to why evolutionary theory should be downgraded.
Sheesh. I'd get less grief on an Islamic board if I said "Mohammed was a fraud and Allah is his scam."
If you don't like getting grief, I'd recommend you try a web site other than FR.
Indeed.
You are an able defender of both your profession and your faith, inasmuch as those can be distinguished. Best,
And what faith is that? He's not insulting Christianity. If he's insulting anyone, he's insulting the Creationoids who make Christians look like boobs by association.
All I see him quoted as saying is this: "The fundies want it all taught in a science class, but this will be a nice slap in their big fat face by teaching it as a religious studies class under the category mythology."
What insult is contained therein? Do you have a problem with being called a "fundy?" Is the "fat face" thing getting your panties in a wad? Perhaps your issue is with your particualr myhtology being taught as somethign other than scientifically founded?
Oh, and: Please: NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.
Thank you, but science isn't my profession, and, though I recognize that this crack about faith is intended as a barb, I have no problem with the fact that, at bottom, all reasoning, including from assumed axioms in formal systems, requires some element of faith. It's just that some reasoning is done with as much institutionalized cynically critical rigor as we can muster, and we call that natural sciences.
About damned time.
I have no problem with the fact that, at bottom, all reasoning, including from assumed axioms in formal systems, requires some element of faith.
Not necessarily. The Axiom of Choice is a great example. You don't have to "believe" it, you just have to say whether or not you assume it.
It's just that some reasoning is done with as much institutionalized cynically critical rigor as we can muster, and we call that natural sciences.
Oh, you can muster a little more. Just a little more.
What part of polemics do you not understand? But,...No, it doesn't. It indicates a quarrel, which you started by denigrating my contribution, and which you continue with your usual air of faintly patronizing rhetoric.
You never told me whether your accusation that I started the quarrel was a mistake or a lie.
"What a ridiculous comparison to the facts of this case."
Oh, good grief. You people pride yourself so on your rationality, but not a one of you can put a coherent thought together.
It's not a comparison; it's a demonstration that speech can rise to the level of religious persecution. That done, one can next proceed to ask whether the present case so rises.
"This school is offering a comparative mythology class that includes a discussion of creationism."
No, this school is offering a class within the Religion department that labels ID and Creationism as myths. It is analogous to the Psychology department offering a course titled, "Atheism and Other Perversions."
"For you to say that is equivalent to singling out a student for anti-Semitic ridicule in class is beyond absurd."
It would be, if I has said anything even remotely resembling that.
Tell ya what. Come to Raleigh, NC. I'll meet you personally. It'd be a pleasure.
> Come to Raleigh, NC. I'll meet you personally.
Paypal me the airline ticket money and re-imbursement for taking days off of work.
What interest do you have in me coming to Raleigh, anyway?
Exactly the response I expected. Typical.
> It is analogous to the Psychology department offering a course titled, "Atheism and Other Perversions."
Only if you consider "mythology" to be equivalent to "perversion."
"Only if you consider "mythology" to be equivalent to "perversion."
Heavens to Murgatroyd, can't you people *think*?
Not "equivalent to," analogous to.
Science types like to denigrate humanities types by saying that the only reason they're in such easy fields is that they can't do science.
Sometimes, that's true. However, science types also seem to be unable to perform the type of abstract thinking that is necessary to solving certain classes of problems.
Sure thing, 'pal'.
What Professor Mirecki says about his course on a Yahoo listserv is protected speech. On that listserv, Professor Mirecki can mock Senator Browlnlee's religion, appearance, clothing style, favorite pro hockey team, and pet parrot, and his job is not in jeopardy.
Sucks, doesn't it?
Well gee golly, "Professor"........let me clue you into a little word called "context". Look it up. It explains the exchange you butted into.
Now, "Professor", care to debate the impact of the First Amendment on the REAL issue on this thread and the reply above you deigned to stick your up-in-the-air nose into?
Bring it.
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