Ludwig took 2nd girl on long trip

Patriot-News (PA) ^ | Nov 24, 2005 | CARRIE CASSIDY

[wouldntbprudent]

LANCASTER - Kara Beth Borden was the second girlfriend that David Ludwig took on a long-distance trip without her parents' consent this year.

Confirming a report in a Lancaster newspaper, the Rev. Michael D. Shelley, pastor of the Lititz Christian Church, said Tuesday that Ludwig took a girl to his family's hunting cabin in Juniata County in the spring.

The couple returned voluntarily, Shelley said, adding that he knows the Ludwig family well because they attend his church.

"I know the incident and I know the parents took care of it," Shelley said during a telephone interview Tuesday. "No one else [including police] were involved."

[JustAnotherOkie]

A stich in time saves nine. File Kidnapping and the murder would not have happend. What the hell are laws passed for anyway.

[sport]

Th make the lawyers rich. And keep cops working.

[MizSterious]

Hasn't anyone ever heard of the term "nipped in the bud"? This guy was sending out all kinds of signals that he was TROUBLE and everyone seems to have chosen to look the other way.

[gondramB]

Without knowing the first girl's age it's hard to say what could have been done.

[bobo1]

"the Rev. Michael D. Shelley, pastor of the Lititz Christian Church, said Tuesday that Ludwig took a girl to his family's hunting cabin in Juniata County in the spring."

Sheesh! took a girl to "his" family hunting cabin? What kind of a minister is this?

Blessings, Bobo

[JustAnotherOkie]

He's 18. If the parents were involved... He's such a nice boy.

[CindyDawg]

It might have made a difference but it might not have, either. He and the parents are probably beating themselves up about it now. Most families only call the police in as a last resort because it usually makes things worse. Sad though.

[CindyDawg]

Well I doubt he gave them the key and said "have fun"

[kayak]

If the girl went willingly, it's not kidnapping.

And what is the minister supposed to do ... arrest the kid? All he can do is counsel the family and offer advice, which may (apparently did) fall on deaf ears.

[Brilliant]

So why wasn't this guy in jail?

[gondramB]

"He's 18. If the parents were involved... He's such a nice boy."

He's 18 now. if he was 17 then and the girl was 17 then there was no reason to think that indicated a risk of future murder.

OTOH if he was already 18 amd she was 14 then that's -different - not murder but still criminal.

[Aaron0617]

This guy was sending out all kinds of signals that he was TROUBLE and everyone seems to have chosen to look the other way.

Going over the list, so far:
1) The non-reported kidnapping of this girl earlier this year
2) Video of Ludwig and friend surveying houses and discussing murdering neighboring parents
3) Seeking to hide a dating/sexual relationship with a 14 year old girl.

[Kimmers]

I know this happens in our area if teens are going to church and attending church sponsored teen weekends parents seem to think everything is OK with their kids. As parents we all need to be responsible and be nosey about what is happening with our kids. I do not know if this was the case with these kids but clearly someone was not paying attention.

[fabriclady]

"Going over the list, so far:"

He already has a record, a records that the parents knew about.
He used a gun that most likely belongs to his dad.
I see a wrongful death suit in the future.
I read that his dad is a commercial pilot and probably gone a lot.
The orphaned children will need lots of help to get them to adulthood. I hope the Borden's had some high dollar life insurance.

And what kind of laws does PA have?
Dismiss kidnapping charge because a 14 year old was not forced to go.
Since when can a 14 year old make a decision.
He killed the parents because they told him the 14 year old could not go. Something here does not make sense.
And I believe the girl did go willingly, but, she is not old enough to make that decision.

I believe we will find out this girl was trouble. It will be interesting to hear what the cell phone will reveal. I read that investigators want records back to July.

[CindyDawg]

Yeah. She was out of control but teenagers often are. They just don't go around killing people though. There is something very wrong with these two. Maybe apart they would have been ok but together they brought out the worst in each other. How could a parent have know this was coming? Kids hunt. Sometimes they run away. You bring them back and try to correct problems but unless they were physically abusive or had hurt in the past... Even if this guy had been arrested, a judge would have probably put him on probation.

[SunnySide]

The make the lawyers rich. And keep cops working.

...

Funny you mention that, watch the movie Anger Management. It's about a court appointed psychiatrist who entraps people into his tax funded sessions.

[fabriclady]

I also read an article that said Ludwig lured girls with Christianity.
He probably did the same act with his parents.
I am not blaming the parents, though if a wrongful death suit is brought against them, the laws of the state will blame them.
He was getting away with so much. The girl spent the night at his house, her parents thought she was at a sleep over.
There is just too much going on here.

[Concho]

Ludwig did not take the girl to the ministers cabin. The Ludwig family has a hunting cabin. "His" refers to Ludwig, not the minister.

[wouldntbprudent]

Yes, and who is going to want to take in Kara Borden? No matter extended family or a foster family, I would think people would be pretty darn adverse to taking a risk on this girl.