Posted on 11/24/2005 6:30:15 AM PST by A. Pole
"[O]ur ancestors established their system of government on morality and religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be trusted on any other foundation than religious principle, nor any government be secure which is not supported by moral habits."
-- Daniel Webster, American Jurist and Senator
Of all the dispositions and habits which least to political
prosperity, Religion and morality are indespensable supports.
In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism who should
labor to subvert these great Pilliars of human happiness."
-- George Washington (Farewell Address, 19 September 1796)
"The only assurance of our nation's safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion."
-- Abraham Lincoln
"[W]hen People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." --Samuel Adams
"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." -- General Douglas MacArthur
"It is impossible that a nation of infidels or idolaters should be a nation of free men. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom." --Patrick Henry
"The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." Noah Webster, compiler of the American Dictionary of the English Language in 1828.
“We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us ... to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” -James Madison
And finally, to disprove the false argument that basic morality as taught in the Bible is somehow sectarian:
"Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of society require the observation of those moral precepts ... in which all religions agree." --Thomas Jefferson
Happy Thanks Giving!
Anything topical to post or are you simply disagreeing by method of ambiguous implication?
I agree that not all homosexuals are the same although I in no way say the Bible is wrong. I am searching to understand and hope that someday the medical field will uncover what I see as a misconnect somewhere.
Some are merely seeking depravity and new thrills.
But some seem to have a malfunction in the puberty process IMHO. This can be seen in the young.
What young teenager would willingly give up chasing girls as other teens do, would willingly make himself an outcast from his good male friends and seek to ruin his goal of a future family?
I think all is fine as these young men reach puberty. They run with the same friends until gradually their friends pair off with girlfriends and their interests diverge. The questionable male notes that he is merely friends with the girls and does not have the ability to sustain a boy/girl relationship (since underneath it all there is little sexual interest there).
The questionable male than begins to feel left out as he just wants the male friendships and the girlfriends are always taking the friends away. He begins to feel very different and eventually comes across others not obsessed with the boyfriend/girlfriend connection. Then trouble begins.
And I tend to think this is because these questionable males did not have the "switch" that always occurs in the regular male that suddenly makes him notice girls with interest. Somehow this "switch" failed to occur.
This also is shown in the fact that the gay males tend to appear stuck in the young adolescence stage. Their interests do not mature as rapidly as the other males.
No flames necessary here as I in no way wish to further the homosexual side. I just feel that there is more going on there than just the normal seeking perversion.
Another reason? How would any normal males be willing to forego women the rest of their lives? No way. So therefore there is a difference between those that do and those that don't. And I just don't buy that it is always a conscious choice each and every day for perversion over the normal. Don't think any male would do that. Maybe bisexuals - but not all homosexuals.
So this comes down to not hate for them but sadness that they have to face this problem over basic human needs.
The homosexual activists have been waging war on traditional, basic morality for 30 years. Along with Planned Parenthood/abortion promoters, "sex positive" sex ed, and others. But the homosexual activists are at the vanguard.
You don't think that conservatives should stand up and tell the truth about the "gay" life, that it is immoral, unhealthy, unnatural, and most important - that they can change?
BTW, there are no "Incestors' Pride" Parades, "Adulterers' Pride" Parades, "Bestiophiles' Pride" Parades.
Or "Liars' Pride" Parades, "Extortioners' Pride" Parades. Etc. So the practitioners of other sins don't seem to be taking it to the max in the same manner.
Actually it appears you are attempting to impose your homosexual agenda on this thread by using one of the oldest leftist ploys...
Thanx for the selective quotes and psuedohistory lesson.
I'm thankful for the gay friends we have, as I am for all of our friends and the fact that two of them are married has not diminsihed our marriage 1 bit.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Actually I don't have an agenda. I decide issues as thy come based upon freedom, equal opportunity and trying not to control the lives of others. Actually.
An interesting hypothesis. I wonder if the gay movement would really cause a schism over this. The (American) gays have to know that without Democratic support, they are dead in the water. Besides, whether there is a gay gene or not (I think the Bible holds 'no'), we all know that many gays do actively recruit the troubled and lost. Fresh meat. Further, and I don't know how prevalent this is, but I thought that gay couples were getting together more and more to exchange DNA and then split up the litter of human babies between the male and female couples. No risk of abortion there. Overall, my guess is that the homosexual lobby simply needs the DEMS too much.
46 is for you dear.
Since gays are only 3% of the population any abortions to avoid a gay child will have impact that they themselves could not overcome through any combination of intra-gay-culture matings of convenience. But until a gay gene is isolated (if ever) it is all idle speculation.
You appear to be confused on at least two points...
No flame. No bubble burst.
As I said, my observations are completely subjective. As too, apparantly, are yours.
Thank you very kindly for the recommendations.
As the father of two boys (ages 6 and 3), I very much appreciate your making the effort to share.
Keep guessing... The Pastor in question is the one being forced upon. Your arguments are as flawed as the leftists that have mouthed them for eons...
Whether homosexuality is congenital or not, we know that MAJOR CAUSE OF THE SPREAD OF AIDS. Even though more time and effort has gone into a campaign of public relations against that proposition. I am convinced that homosexuals are at much greater risk of contracting the deadly desease than heterosexuals. That is the issue. That is the problem. That is the undeniable fact of life, and that is the reason homosexuality is wrong, because it is a major health hazard, and is responsible for the pandemic spread of one of the most deadly and costly illnesses in the world.
To say that it is a sin is simply the wrong approach. First of all sin has relevance only to those who profess a belief in God and in Christ. And as dogmatic as Christians can be about the exclusivity of their belief systems, there are many millions who do not hold the same beliefs and to hold non-believers up to the standard of the bible is ludicrous to their way of thinking.
If you are preaching to the choir then it is relevant to say that homosexuality wrong. Still its etiology is not relevant. Even the Catholic Church has recently made a clear distinction between the sin and the sinner. Homosexuals, who are not engaging in homosexual sex, and who do not openly approve or support the activity are suitable for admission into the clergy, just as any celibate individual is. So to say that homosexuality is genetic is to beg the question that God created man in his image and likeness, which is probably the bases for the religious denial of this possibility.
All in all the Christian who purports to convince an atheist that homosexuals are sinners, is spitting into a wind that is blowing into his face. If there is a more effective way to create hostility among homosexuals toward Christianity, I do not know of it. As a Christian, I say that homosexual contact is a sin, for Christians and they will be chastened by God. If the sinner cannot learn he will be taught. As for non-believers, they have a more loathsome problem, and no matter what conclusion you may come to about homosexuals, they like all other non believers will receive their recompense.
Your crusade is against homosexuals couched under the disguise of fighting a monolithic agenda. It is classic propaganda technique. You can post all kinds of pap here claiming to fight the agenda, but the real deal is you hate homosexuals and want them to go away, because of your religious beliefs, supposedly christian.
You mention the Bible and the Ten Commandments as if they should be codified in our laws. I guess we should reinstate slavery and have laws against worshipping false gods.
Other than the anti-american,poison you and others are spitting out here, there's a serious logical flaw in what you are doing. The agenda may contain numerous items. Are they all bad ideas because they are on the agenda? What are the odds they are all bad. Even the dems get a platform plank right and the repubs one wrong now and then. These rights and claims by homosexuals deserve to be taken one at a time and instituted or dismissed. It is the idea that is important, not the source.
There is a world of difference between school curriculum for kids and homos getting married. You don't make any distinctions. You are not only a zealot, you are intellectually lazy.
Please spend as much time as you want posting selective quotes from 200 years ago or some of that "scientific" research you have collected. I'm out.
May you and your family, and homosexuals have a Happy Thanksgiving!
I think you can head up the Department of Trapped in Sin services. Give me a break. Out.
That's what people said fifty years ago, but the evidence doesn't support it. It also may not exactly be verifiable. A father may be "DOMINANT" in some ways in the house or in the community, but so unapproachable that the son turns to his mother or ignores both parents.
You can make "dominant" mean whatever you want it to, and that wasn't fair to parents, particularly the mothers. Moreover, whatever the disadvantages of single parent families, it's not at all clear that more homosexuals come out of such environments.
What many would say now is that most homosexuals have had a disturbed relationship to the parent of their own sex. That's also vague and many heterosexuals have also had troubled relationships with their parents of their own sex, but it gets closer that the old "it's all mom's fault" cliches to what's involved.
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