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ACLU Looking to File Suit Over JHS Graduation "Altar Call" (Someone shoot me)
http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp?S=4150375&nav=0jsh ^
| November 21, 2005
| Heather Flanigan
Posted on 11/23/2005 10:30:31 AM PST by AZRepublican
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To: RobbyS
Maybe, but is the ACLU suing people for selfish behavior now? I never said I was defending a lawsuit here. I said the opposite several times. The school, by allowing it to continue, placed themselves in an actionable position. Since it is unlikely to recur, a lawsuit seems excessive.
SD
To: FroedrickVonFreepenstein
The problem with your AC anology is that the young lady didn't barge up on stage, she was invited to speak. I agree that graduation is not the proper place for an altar call, however, since we are a free people she is free to make her inapproriate altar call. The government must respect her freedom and leave her alone. I mostly agree, insofar as she was engaged in actual speech, and graduates are typically given a pretty wide latitude in what they choose to say. However, being invited to speak is not a blank check to do whatever you want -- e.g., profanity, monopolizing the stage for hours, haranguing the audience at length about 'Bush's illegal war for oil', etc. The school, as provider of the forum, can limit the speech in length, content, etc. And this particular encouragement for audience members to "come forward to accept Jesus" -- what if someone takes her up on it? How long is that going to take? Do we then give the respondent some stage time to give a testimony of their faith? It's ridiculous. This sort of stunt is neither the reason the school put on the event nor the reason the audience came. It's an abuse of the audience.
By the way if you think they should have forcibly removed her from the stage, what level of violence should the government use to get her away from the microphone? A backhand to the face? A billy club to the back of the head? A tazer to the abdomen? .40 S&W to central body mass?
Most likely she could be wrestled away by a couple of strong men.
182
posted on
11/23/2005 1:26:58 PM PST
by
Sloth
(Freedom of speech doesn't mean the rest of us have to shut up.)
To: Sloth
Whose money pays for it, your money, or the gov'ts money? See my tagline.
183
posted on
11/23/2005 1:42:47 PM PST
by
darkangel82
(Never underestimate the stupidity of government.)
To: Sloth
Interesting comments on this thread. But, there does seem to be a fact that's not mentioned either in the article or by the ACLU or even the school... The Jonesboro Middle School Schootings in 1998...11 students wounded, 4 Middle School Students (ages 11-12), killed and one teacher (who used her body as a shield for her students).
I do not know if this particular student was present, but many of those graduating from High School in Jonesboro in May most certainly were...and possibly at least one of those students murdered should have been among the graduating Seniors. Perhaps, it confuses what has become a debate issue...the "Politically Correct Place" for Religion, Schools, and God (a non-issue for over 200 years under our Government, Constitution, & God;but those points have already been debated on this thread).
Just thought there might have been a more personal side to the student's urgency & use of her public speaking time...that was understood & accepted (or at the least not particularly offended by)by those in the audience. Also, the general community apparently did not rise up about this...a video made it's way to the ACLU who just filed over something that occurred over 5 months ago.
184
posted on
11/23/2005 2:04:57 PM PST
by
SergeantsLady
(I support my soldier by supporting the mission he believes in...)
To: SoothingDave
I agree with Dave. If this young woman had decided to use her bully pulpit to hawk Amway or timeshares, would anyone think it right?
185
posted on
11/23/2005 2:13:47 PM PST
by
muir_redwoods
(Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
To: SoothingDave
I don't think it's a question of what's smart or stupid, good taste or bad taste, but rather what the 1st amendment is there to protect and permit. Speech, and opinions, that do not offend anyone do not need protection. It's the dissenting, and often offensive, speech that needs to be protected.
186
posted on
11/23/2005 2:48:57 PM PST
by
jwpjr
To: jwpjr
Start with post 55, a student speaker pronounces from the podium
I bear witness that there is no deity except Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger
read posts 81,132,44,150,164,166,172, and try your best to explain to me how on earth this is a First Amendment issue. And no, majority rules has nothing to do with the bill of rights, other, perhaps, than as motivation.
187
posted on
11/23/2005 2:58:12 PM PST
by
SJackson
(People have learned from Gaza that resistance succeeds, not smart negotiators., Hassem Darwish)
To: chronic_loser
So, while I would not be exactly proud of my conversation with my professor...I stand guilty along with you brother. Thanks.
188
posted on
11/23/2005 3:11:39 PM PST
by
jonno
(We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
To: GovernmentShrinker
There's still a problem with the government school inviting anybody in to proselytize ~ they simply are not Constitutionally eligible to do that.
What part of "strict neutrality" do you not understand?
189
posted on
11/23/2005 4:51:19 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: GovernmentShrinker
BTW, I have no problem with your proposal concerning the Moslems. Then, too, that will never happen. That's not how they do it.
BTW, we had to have the Baccalaureatte service in a Roman Catholic Church since some stupid damned judge around here ruled we couldn't do that at the highschool even if it was strictly voluntary and done outside of normal business hours and even if we paid rent for the building.
I considered it a horrific imposition on my rights to have a federal judge force me to go into a Catholic Church simply to make sure my son got full benefit of all the ceremonial aspects of his graduation.
At that point I decided that public schools as they are understood in America are a totalitarian artifact that should no longer be tolerated.
BTW, the RC's caused no problem. In fact, I knew most of them, and had done government business with several of the priests in attendance. I would imagine we all had the same thought on the matter.
190
posted on
11/23/2005 4:56:59 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: SoothingDave
We already discussed your point Dave, and you lost. Do you actually think you can come in here and continue to argue such a point as if no one else saw you do it earlier?
191
posted on
11/23/2005 4:59:06 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: genefromjersey
That's your religious belief. I don't share in it because it is entirely too narrow and bigoted. We have to be broadminded and tolerant in these matters.
192
posted on
11/23/2005 5:00:30 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: muir_redwoods
There is nothing that makes me turn and walk away quicker than an 'altar call'. Fine in church, but I've purposely avoided churches that had such stuff.
What this girl did was wrong and truly mean spirited. Bully pulpit is an understatement. All she did was make the right look even more stupid and arrogant. Crap like this makes me furious!
193
posted on
11/23/2005 5:02:32 PM PST
by
najida
(Blood on the floor....a Thanksgiving Tradition at my house)
To: Sloth
No, the girl should not be ostracized for exercising her Constitutional rights. Rather, those who criticize her for doing so should be censured and banished to the nether reaches of the Arctic ice flows.
A free people cannot tolerate the whiff of totalitarianism.
194
posted on
11/23/2005 5:04:05 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: Alouette
BS ~ no real Freeper has anything to do with the ACLU. No real Freeper even suggests that any honest business can be conducted with them.
You may be in the wrong discussion group.
195
posted on
11/23/2005 5:06:22 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: SoothingDave
Dave baby, the problem with your particular thread is that you are advocating the use of government sponsored tyranny to beat this young lady down.
No one here agrees that the state has a horse in this race at all.
196
posted on
11/23/2005 5:07:54 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: Sloth
As I suspected you are in the camp that would feel safer from possibly offending language if the government posted a sniper at each and every public event so that offenders of your delicate sensibilities could be taken out instantly.
197
posted on
11/23/2005 5:09:13 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: StolarStorm
She probably gives "your" brand of Christians a bad name ~
198
posted on
11/23/2005 5:12:10 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: SJackson
The School Board, however, is simply not entitled to have a policy on religion. That would be unconstitutional behavior and actionable in court.
199
posted on
11/23/2005 5:14:29 PM PST
by
muawiyah
(u)
To: SergeantsLady
I think it shows the pernicious effect of trying to impose a single standard across the country. What the girl did was somewhat over the top, even for her town. But she was not speaking to the same ki9nd of audience that she would have been in Caifornia or Massachusetts. If obscenity is to be judged by local standards, why not religious sentiments?
200
posted on
11/23/2005 6:22:20 PM PST
by
RobbyS
( CHIRHO)
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