Posted on 11/23/2005 7:19:53 AM PST by kellynla
WHEN IT COMES to the future of Iraq, there is a deep disconnect between those who have firsthand knowledge of the situation — Iraqis and U.S. soldiers serving in Iraq — and those whose impressions are shaped by doomsday press coverage and the imperatives of domestic politics.
A large majority of the American public is convinced that the liberation of Iraq was a mistake, while a smaller but growing number thinks that we are losing and that we need to pull out soon. Those sentiments are echoed by finger-in-the-wind politicians, including many — such as John Kerry, Harry Reid, John Edwards, John Murtha and Bill Clinton — who supported the invasion.
Yet in a survey last month from the U.S.-based International Republican Institute, 47% of Iraqis polled said their country was headed in the right direction, as opposed to 37% who said they thought that it was going in the wrong direction. And 56% thought things would be better in six months. Only 16% thought they would be worse.
American soldiers are also much more optimistic than American civilians. The Pew Research Center and the Council on Foreign Relations just released a survey of American elites that found that 64% of military officers are confident that we will succeed in establishing a stable democracy in Iraq. The comparable figures for journalists and academics are 33% and 27%, respectively. Even more impressive than the Pew poll is the evidence of how our service members are voting with their feet. Although both the Army and the Marine Corps are having trouble attracting fresh recruits — no surprise, given the state of public opinion regarding Iraq — reenlistment rates continue to exceed expectations. Veterans are expressing their confidence in the war effort by signing up to continue fighting.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Given that you're arguing with my answer, I think you know that I did answer your question. ;-) You obviously don't agree with my answer, which is a different issue entirely.
Revulsion toward Bill Clinton? Really? You give him that much power?
You misunderstand. I'm saying that the revulsion (your word), such as it was, was a visceral response to the issues being cheer-led by the MSM. Newt Gingrich got traction by offering a distinct difference.
What was responsible for the defeat of John F'n Kerry? (Clue: www.swiftvets.com)
How about ... John F'n Kerry himself? He was and is a ponderous, obvious fake. Swiftvets certainly didn't hurt matters, but I think the vast majority of voters never went to the site to check the claims, nor did they see the ads. They probably did hear the controversy about the ads, to the effect that "somebody is calling Kerry a liar about his war record." Given that most didn't trust him anyway, the controversy merely strengthened their distrust. I seriously doubt most people outside of FR and like-minded places know any real details of the controversy.
Other examples abound, you just aren't noticing it.
I'm just realistic about most people: they're a lot less informed, and are less interested in becoming informed, than you seem to think they are.
Other examples abound, you just aren't noticing it
I notice a lot of things -- and I can make pretty good predictions about public opion by assuming that people go with gut feel about things they're not really following.
Perhaps you've forgotten that Reagan was continually excoriated by the MSM. His popularity came despite the negative coverage. Perhaps it's an example of the old saying that "there's no such thing as bad publicity."
Because there is a (thankfully) short supply of the seditious Iraq Stars & Stripes in chow halls throughout the AOR. AP and Reuters crapola, with occasional filler from the LA Slimes (e.g., the full front-page obit to Marla Ruzicka of Medea Benjamin's Code Pink and Global Exchange).
For the rest of you, some of whom will face the same dilemna, I offer up the following retort for the most recent leftist thrust re the Iraq war.
It will be their contention no doubt, that we withdraw now. I plan to ask them why we should withdraw. It will be easy to guide them to the conclusion that we should withdraw....BECAUSE WE ARE LOSING. My question to them will then be:
Will you itemize for me please, which of the STRATEGIC GOALS of our ENEMY.....have been ACCOMPLISHED?
"Think now sis, think, brother of mine, before you speak......did the civil war break out between Sunnis and Shi'ites?....did the insurgency prevent the election of the interim government?...did the insurgency prevent the vote on the constitution?....have they succeeded in any way to sway public opinion against the American "occupation"?....which side has had to resort to sending in 10 year olds, the retarded, and important lieutenants to die for the cause?....which side's field commander got a written rebuke from his commander in chief?....
Am I loaded for bear, or what?
When it's all over I'd love to see the Republicans come out with the facts on national television; highlighting everything good done over there and how the MSM subverted the good news for the bad.
"When it's all over I'd love to see the Republicans come out with the facts on national television; highlighting everything good done over there and how the MSM subverted the good news for the bad."
You know how the MSM always has its little "reality check" segments of campaign ad claims? The republicans should do the same about Iraq and challenge the MSM to prove all the good news they ignore wrong! And have Cheney do them weekly!
Roger. As much as it pains me to say it the Republicans have not done a good job of reporting the good in this war. It's one thing to sell a war, but if you want to keep your support for it you've got to keep at it. And at it, and at it, and at it.
Reagan's popularity came despite MSM BECAUSE he did what I am saying Bush should do...go around the MSM directly to the people with a clear, cogent -- and consistent -- case.
I forget where I read it, but a study found that one of the main factors by which one could determine whether a fledgling democracy would succeed or fail was a per capita income of $3000 per year.
The economy slowed after the invasion and is now rebounding.
Absolutely. Imagine if Bush came on this website for a "chat." It could be done and it would be huge. The MSM would be forced to get their news from Free Republic. They already do but they don't giv credit.
...have they succeeded in any way to sway public opinion against the American "occupation"?...
Well, if you include the Dems and the MSM as enemies of the President, and by extension, the U.S. (as I do, in my humble opinion), then you would have to say that this objective is being achieved by the enemy from within.
I share your pain by the way: I used to work at UMASS Amherst (Berkeley East). I found that one could make the rabid liberals slip on their own drool by playing devil's advocate and letting them figuratively cut their own throats, while I continued to appear to be above the fray.
A few "...but I read (insert truth they never saw or ignored here) in the paper (be vague about which one, but offer that you only read the Boston Globe or NYTimes, LOL)..." and force them to support their beliefs. Trust me, it ends quickly. You can tell they have run out of unfounded talking points when their heads cock to the side like a confused dog.
It is fun to watch! ;-)
Thanks. Looks like a great outfit.
The good sorts of people are coming together on the war. My boss's secretary, a mousy Japanese-American lady of high character but DEFinitely not a military sort? Her son is a 19-year-old Lance Corporal USMC now, and she is proud as heck. I could never do what he is doing, so I want to help in other ways.
There is an Iraqi Stock Exchange up and running for sometime now. Don't know about ADR's but a currency play might be a good bet about now.
CSPAN would cover it, and so would Fox, most likely. The point is valid, that no one knows if the admin doesn't go out of its way to communicate.
Rush had it right years ago--he said "Look--the media is biased, and will never give America a fair shake--so deal with it. It's just another bump in the road to work around."
You're very welcome.
And we appreciate all you can do to support the troops.
Even if it's just mail.
Folks don't realize that mail and care packages are the best morale booster that a Marine, Soldier, Airman or Sailor in combat can receive.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Semper Fi,
Kelly
Gotcha
Ollie North was on Hannity's radio show. He said that the Brookings Institution also found that there are more Iraqi kids in school than ever before. Pass the good news around!
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