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To: Campion
How about no unsupervised Internet access? In fact, her parents had shut down their internet service b/c of inappropriate activity on the part of their daughter.

How about a security system so that Ludwig couldn't get into the house at night to sleep with their daughter?

There is no evidence this ever happened.

This isn't "blaming the victims," it's those of us who are parents trying to understand what went wrong so we can avoid it in our own families.

It sure is. As a matter of fact, it is a recurring phenomenon among otherwise good parents who mistakenly believe that if you just come up with the correct "system" that your kids will turn out ok. Thank God, ours did, but we are not foolish enough to believe it was because we did all the "right" things. Evil is resident in the hearts of all of Adam's descendants, and you cannot condition it out with any amount of religious and/or restrictive activity. The seeds of murder are in every kid, and if the master surgeon cuts them out it is because of GRACE AND MERCY, not because I homeschooled them (both these kids were homeschooled and were involved in church) and taught them the bible, or did whatever other good activity. In reality, the reason I myself am not dead over some whack job like this is God's mercy to me and my daughters, not because I was a "good enough" parent. Kids are not coke machines that guarantee a good product if you can just insert the right combination. It is a myth to think you can find that combo. Rather, you do your best and pray and acknowledge that there is only ONE sovereign of the universe. Anything else is self-deception.

112 posted on 11/22/2005 10:23:59 AM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: chronic_loser

"there is only ONE sovereign of the universe"

Right on. Nobody has the antidote to sin but God himself.


115 posted on 11/22/2005 10:29:13 AM PST by Genoa
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To: chronic_loser
In fact, her parents had shut down their internet service b/c of inappropriate activity on the part of their daughter.

Good, but too late.

There is no evidence this ever happened.

Sorry, but Kara referred to it in her blog. Her friends also have said that it was going on.

In reality, the reason I myself am not dead over some whack job like this is God's mercy to me and my daughters, not because I was a "good enough" parent.

You're setting up a false dichotomy between "God's mercy" and "being a good enough parent". There's no dichotomy. Part of God's mercy is setting you up as the parent over your child. Discussing how best to carry out that task does not demean or diminish His role, nor does it imply that you can somehow do it without his help.

Kids are not coke machines that guarantee a good product if you can just insert the right combination. It is a myth to think you can find that combo. Rather, you do your best

Yes -- my point is precisely to discuss what "do your best" is, in concrete terms.

120 posted on 11/22/2005 10:47:20 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: chronic_loser
The chat between the two friends did not seem to end well. Kara Beth Borden wrote later in all capital letters, the internet equivalent of shouting; "YOU DONT UNDERSTAND WE TOOK THAT RISK THE FIRST NIGHT HE CAME OVER... we said

From http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1105/1601_kara_beth_ludwig_frightening_changes1.html, referenced on another thread.

He was sneaking into her room after hours.

121 posted on 11/22/2005 10:51:01 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: chronic_loser
there is only ONE sovereign of the universe.

Amen.

He was not surprised by any of this. Nor did it happen outside of His perfect will. Every individual breath drawn by every creature is a real-time gift from His sovereign hand.
124 posted on 11/22/2005 10:57:28 AM PST by newgeezer
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To: chronic_loser
Burglar bars are better than an alarm system. They can move the magnets on the windows, with alarm systems. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about:')
149 posted on 11/22/2005 6:40:05 PM PST by CindyDawg
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