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To: LWalk18
Okay, what would you have done differently than the Bordens that would have prevented their murder? Gotten her in involved in church? They did that. Kept her away from public schools? They did that. Put their foot down and told David to stay away from their daughter? They did that.

How about no unsupervised Internet access?

How about a security system so that Ludwig couldn't get into the house at night to sleep with their daughter?

How about making a point of researching her "sleepovers with friends" by checking out things with the other parents, instead of assuming they were okay?

This isn't "blaming the victims," it's those of us who are parents trying to understand what went wrong so we can avoid it in our own families.

104 posted on 11/22/2005 10:09:49 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
How about no unsupervised Internet access? In fact, her parents had shut down their internet service b/c of inappropriate activity on the part of their daughter.

How about a security system so that Ludwig couldn't get into the house at night to sleep with their daughter?

There is no evidence this ever happened.

This isn't "blaming the victims," it's those of us who are parents trying to understand what went wrong so we can avoid it in our own families.

It sure is. As a matter of fact, it is a recurring phenomenon among otherwise good parents who mistakenly believe that if you just come up with the correct "system" that your kids will turn out ok. Thank God, ours did, but we are not foolish enough to believe it was because we did all the "right" things. Evil is resident in the hearts of all of Adam's descendants, and you cannot condition it out with any amount of religious and/or restrictive activity. The seeds of murder are in every kid, and if the master surgeon cuts them out it is because of GRACE AND MERCY, not because I homeschooled them (both these kids were homeschooled and were involved in church) and taught them the bible, or did whatever other good activity. In reality, the reason I myself am not dead over some whack job like this is God's mercy to me and my daughters, not because I was a "good enough" parent. Kids are not coke machines that guarantee a good product if you can just insert the right combination. It is a myth to think you can find that combo. Rather, you do your best and pray and acknowledge that there is only ONE sovereign of the universe. Anything else is self-deception.

112 posted on 11/22/2005 10:23:59 AM PST by chronic_loser (Handle provided free of charge as flame bait for the neurally vacant.)
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To: Campion
This isn't "blaming the victims," it's those of us who are parents trying to understand what went wrong so we can avoid it in our own families.

Good luck to you.... Kids can be crafty, even those that will never turn out this way.

118 posted on 11/22/2005 10:40:38 AM PST by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/ 1,000 knives and counting!)
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To: Campion

I will not condemn these parents with the information I have because they appear to be trying to do the right things.

That said, I take the lessons you outlined very seriously. We need to learn from mistakes others make. Whenever something like this happens, I want to know as much as possible about what happened and techniques used by BOTH families in raising their children.

I want to learn as much as I can in order to keep my children safe...and, to be honest, do everything I can to keep them out of the circumstances that lead them to do horrible things to the people around them. I have always thought that if my child was killed, I would be horrified and saddened. But to have your child be the perpetrator would be almost unbearable.


148 posted on 11/22/2005 3:42:13 PM PST by pollyannaish
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