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I hope this passes muster...
Posted on 11/20/2005 10:03:23 AM PST by Kitten Festival
The prize for the most dramatic oratory in the United States Congress in the new millennium goes to fledgling Representative Jean Schmidt. In the midst of debate over whether the House of Representatives should vote on a resolution endorsing immediate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq she conveyed a message she had received from an active duty Marine colonel, to Representative Jack Murtha. Murtha, a decorated Marine veteran, inspired the debate earlier this week by calling for withdrawal from Iraq.
Representative Smith’s message quoting the colonel was simple: “Cowards cut and run, Marines never do.” [snip] When people engage in debate within the boundaries of legitimate disagreement they should be respectful. But we need to maintain those boundaries.
Jack Murtha’s call for immediate disengagement took him far outside the boundaries of legitimate disagreement. He has never been able to articulate any plausible basis for his position on Iraq. There is a simple reason for that. There isn’t one.
Reasonable people cannot differ about whether or not the United States should press forward with our war against the terror masters. For the time being Iraq is inevitably the principal front in that war. A congressman who tries to duck his share of the responsibility for prosecuting that war is displaying moral cowardice. Any American who recommends retreat is injuring his own country and calling his own patriotism into question.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Now, I will call him a poor decision maker whose been in the beltway too long.
So, in your view, Jack Murtha isn't a "good military man". What, pray tell, are your bona fides in determining this? Murtha has been on the side of the troops for as long as he's been in Congress. His heroism in combat is unquestioned. I fervently believe that he is flat wrong on this issue, but step softly around me before labeling him a "coward" or "not a good military man". We sound just like the DUmmies when we smear honorable men because we disagree with them.
Murtha isn't a coward or a traitor. He is just an old fool that the dems have manipulated. He accomplished much in his life and didn't know when to quit. He's like captain Sawyer in Horatio Hornblower. It is a shame to watch.
I suspect he was strongarmed into making his statement by his Dem colleagues. They threatened him with cooperatng with the ongoing ethics inquiry involving his brother's company.
I believe that he cannot adjust to new reality of the War on Terror. When he says that the Army cannot do any more in Iraq he is right in the sense that there will be no set piece battles between even division sized forces. The Battle of Iraq is and will continue to consist of small unit actions and patrols where individual soldiers are prey for a non-conventional enemy.
Though he does not say it Murtha is probably deeply troubled in our forces "Nation Building" role in the face of an armed Insurgency. To lay this at the foot of the administration is to ignore the true cowardess shown by the UN and most of the developed world by their lack of assistance.
That said Murtha's pronouncements are simplistic, naive and ignore the hard won lesions of history. Murtha has stated the the US should pull out of Iraq and leave them to their fate, but remain in the area for support should matters in Iraq come a cropper. If we bailed out on Iraq, what nation in the area would have us on their soil? What nation in the area would put that target on their breast?
We have to stay the course our civilization demands no less of us. Congressman Murtha, thank you for your service and bravery but don't cripple our nation.
Once again, not everyone who disagrees with you is an "idiot." This was one of the most important lessons I learned early in life.
From your perspective, because he buys them boots and BDUs, he's a "fine military man"?
I agree...I don't need to call him names either, but he is wrong, he's unwilling to stand up for what he claims he believes in and he's not the type of "leader" we need in congress, but I appreciate his past service...it just doesn't buy him a pass in the present.
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I hope this passes muster...
You have some issues. "Bona fides" is a meaningless slap from the same rotten bucket of fish entrails as "gravitas". Find a short pier and take a long hike.
What nation in the area would have us if we bailed out on Iraq? They would be stupid to make themselves the next target?
If we did have to go back into Iraq to quell a civil war or counter an invasion from, say, Iran we would need a lot more than 160,000 troops and suffer many more casualties than if we finish our job there.
I didn't accuse everyone who disagrees with me of being an idiot......but you provided a strong case for it by your own illogical statements which I quoted...
I hope you'll learn a few more important lessons, before it's too late..
Mistakes made in the REAL world, concerning National Security have serious LIFE ENDING consequences -- unlike debate in the classroom.
Semper Fi
You have to understand where Murtha is coming from. Up until 1995, Jack Murtha was an extremely powerful man as the Democrats ruled the world. He chaired committees that controlled the military. Generals would shake in terror when they got a call from Murtha's office.
Now he is in the minority, and the world doesn't stop when Murtha speaks anymore. At age 74, he is starting to realize that he may never again be the capo di capo. That is very frustrating to a man who once wielded such power.
If it takes losing this war to get the Republicans and Bush out, he can somehow rationalize that as being worth the cost. He'll probably even show up when they dedicate the next Wall on the Mall for those who gave it all in vain.
In 1838, a young Abraham Lincoln spoke thus:
"All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years."
"At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
Wish he were here today to see his prediction come true.
So why are the "insurgents" killing Iraqi's?
Sure is. And so is encouraging the enemy and trying to destroy morale on the homefront.
Citing McVeigh as an example of a military vet is as silly as citing Ted Bundy as a republican. And I have seen it done a number of times over the years. It is not worth a reply.
Just to call your weak hand on this -- what "bona fides" did General Knox have? Or any other military genius who sprang into genius-hood on the field with no prior military experience?
Jack Murtha was once a Marine, but he has turned his back on the Corps.In doing so, he has also turned his back on his country.
He is either a senile old fool or he has knowingly allowed himself to be used by the retreat-and-defeat hate-Bush Left.There may be a third possibility, he actually believes he's right.Or a fourth, he's being blackmailed.
I discount the senility possible, because I can't imagine even a senile Marine turning his back on the Corps.
Regardless of what has driven him to do this, I condemn him for it.He is no longer worthy of the respect of this veteran.
Dumb post of the month.
- Do you really believe that the insurgents will go away if we did?
- Do you believe that these vile people will go back to herding goats or living in some third world hell hole?
- Do you believe that these people (probably joined by the betrayed masses) will not continue killing us as we leave?
- Do you believe that these people are Iraqi patriots or people who will follow Americans where ever they go for the chance of martyrdom including our homeland?
One of the most vivid images stuck in my mind is that of the "Fall of Saigon", where the USA ran. The leftists in this country won't be happy till they see Americans, Iraq's democratically elected government and Christians frantically trying to to get on helicopters leaving the roof of the American Embassy in Baghdad.
That vision is one of suicidal treason and cowardess.
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