Posted on 11/18/2005 10:58:57 AM PST by emiller
Through prayer and supplication, not through a Benny Hinn style laying of the hands and *poof* "BE HEALED!" nonsense.
"There is no one alive today who has the power to do such things - His revelation is completed in the written word of the Bible."
Why would Christ not provide the power to heal the sick and cast out demons in our day just as he did through his Apostles even after his death and resurrection? And why would he and his prophets cease speaking to us today especially seeing as how much is different today than 2000 years ago? Aren't there issues and problems in a modern world that weren't anticipated or spoken of anciently on which we need guidance? Does Christ love us any less than he did the people the New Testament era?
Giving the gifts of healing, prophesy, and casting out demons were used to establish the church and further it's initial ministry.
The church has already been founded, and God's word is complete. He has nothing "new" to teach us or tell us - it's all in His Holy Word. There is nothing new under the sun.
>>Aren't there issues and problems in a modern world that weren't anticipated or spoken of anciently on which we need guidance?<<
Are you suggesting that God is not omnipotent and omniscient? That certain things happened that he did not foresee or plan? I certainly hope not. There is nothing new under the sun. All the guidance we'll ever need is neatly contained within the 66 books of the Bible.
It's been my experience that many of the apostolic "holy ghost" church-goers accept the idea of contemporary prophecy and healing because it's exciting, and find studying scripture a bit on the boring side.
The canon of scripture is complete. God's revelation to us is complete. The indwelling Holy Spirit guides us, enlightens us, makes things understandable, and convicts our conscience, but it does not give us supernatural powers.
Are you suggesting that God is not omnipotent and omniscient? That certain things happened that he did not foresee or plan? I certainly hope not. There is nothing new under the sun. All the guidance we'll ever need is neatly contained within the 66 books of the Bible.
I'm not suggesting that he's not omnipotent, but there are many issues in the world today that could use God's guidance to resolve. It seems to me for instance if God spoke through prophets today to say "Thus saith the Lord, definitively abortion is an abomination in God's eyes" or "Thus saith the Lord, gay marriage is abhorent in God's eyes" or "Thus saith the Lord he who views pornography is in Satan's grasp." Additionally, to me the Bible is not really clear on what the Lord thinks about divorce. Additionally, it seems to me God might have something to say about electing evil men like Bill Clinton and whether or not we're justified engaging in a pro-active defense by invading a country like Iraq. It also seems to me we need some reinforment of all the great principles taught in the Bible including commandments against adultery. I think the lack of God and the lack of obediance to the Lord's commandments in the Bible stems from people feeling very disconnected from those things, like it was something for a bygone age that doesn't really apply any more in modern time. It just seems to me all these evil practices I mentioned would not have such widespread practice as they do if there was a voice well recognized as being definitively from God warning us of all these practices I think we'd see less of a moral slide in our nation.
Additionally, you mentioned that healings were needed to establish the church. It sure seems to me we need them in our day to shore up the church, especially as church attendance continues to slide and people think they can just "worship God on their own." Regardless, it seems to me you're saying God is a partial god for having given those gifts anciently but not in our day.
I'm not trying to be argumentative here or to be difficult. Just questions I have.
Umpteenth? That's a lot.
Mike, I will pray for you, that you will come to understand that the Bible is the sole source of God's authority.
>>but there are many issues in the world today that could use God's guidance to resolve.<<
All events use God's guidance - He is in control of His creation, and nothing happens outside of His good and perfect will.
>>It seems to me for instance if God spoke through prophets today to say "Thus saith the Lord, definitively abortion is an abomination in God's eyes" or "Thus saith the Lord, gay marriage is abhorent in God's eyes" or "Thus saith the Lord he who views pornography is in Satan's grasp."<<
Not needed, it's already been stated in several places in the Bible. Nothing "new" is necessary.
>>Additionally, to me the Bible is not really clear on what the Lord thinks about divorce.<<
Jesus spoke quite clearly on it, as well as Paul's letters that speak of how husbands and wives are to treat each other.
>>Additionally, it seems to me God might have something to say about electing evil men like Bill Clinton and whether or not we're justified engaging in a pro-active defense by invading a country like Iraq.<<
All events occur due to His divine providence, which is why we are commanded to subject ourselves to authority (unless that authority leads us into sin). To say otherwise is to suggest that He is not in control of His creation.
>>It also seems to me we need some reinforment of all the great principles taught in the Bible including commandments against adultery.<<
Why do you need to reinforce what's already been written? The revelation of such truths is not the problem, it's mankind's obedience to it that leads to such problems.
God does not need to say more, we need to read more.
>>I think the lack of God and the lack of obediance to the Lord's commandments in the Bible stems from people feeling very disconnected from those things, like it was something for a bygone age that doesn't really apply any more in modern time.<<
Then the issue is with those people, not the Bible. God's word was, is, and will always be the ultimate authority on Truth (until Christ's second coming). Man is changed for God, God does not change for man.
>>. It just seems to me all these evil practices I mentioned would not have such widespread practice as they do if there was a voice well recognized as being definitively from God warning us of all these practices I think we'd see less of a moral slide in our nation. <<
It's already here - in the 66-books of the Bible. We are commanded to proclaim it's truth, that's how it's contents are spread.
>>It sure seems to me we need them in our day to shore up the church,<<
Again you deny the authority of Scripture. Jesus said that even the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.
>>especially as church attendance continues to slide<<
Among apostate churches, yes. Among solid, sound Biblical churches they aren't.
>>and people think they can just "worship God on their own.<<
The sin of pride - been here since Adam's fall. There's nothing new under the sun.
>>Regardless, it seems to me you're saying God is a partial god for having given those gifts anciently but not in our day.<<
He gave them to serve a purpose. That purpose was met, therefore the gifts are no longer needed.
You sound as if you're looking everywhere for Truth, except the one place where it truly can be found. Turn away from fleshly, man-centered desires for something "new" - the answer is the same today as it always has been, and the tools are right in front of you.
If you'd like to continue this conversation, please use FReepmail. When I get more time, we can go through specific verses if you'd like. I'd very much like to continue this dialogue with you.
ROFL!
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