U.S. denies using phosphorous against civilians (Willie Pete)

MSNBC.com ^ | 11/16/05 | AP

[Airborne1986]

WASHINGTON - Pentagon officials say white phosphorous was used as a weapon against insurgent strongholds during the battle of Fallujah last November, but deny an Italian television news report that it was used against civilians.

Lt. Col. Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, said Tuesday that while white phosphorous is most frequently used to mark targets or obscure a position, it was used at times in Fallujah as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants.

White phosphorous is a colorless-to-yellow translucent wax-like substance with a pungent, garlic-like smell. The form used by the military ignites once it is exposed to oxygen, producing such heat that it bursts into a yellow flame and produces a dense white smoke. It can cause painful burn injuries to exposed human flesh.

[Airborne1986]

Caption: This image from an Italian documentary allegedly shows U.S. forces using white phosphorous in Iraq in November 2004. The documentary alleges troops used white phosphorous shells "in a massive and indiscriminate way" against civilians during the offensive in Fallujah.

This photo looks to me like a gunship dropping flares - not WP. Either way, there should be a law against journalists who don't know their ass from their elbows writing about weapon systems. WP is a legal and effective weapon - especially against an entrenched enemy. The same people that are up in arms (sorry about the pun) about the lack of armor on light vehicles now apparently would prefer that we deny this weapon to our soldiers and make them dig insurgents out of covered positions with entrenching tools.

[dead]

white phosphorous was used as a weapon against insurgent strongholds during the battle of Fallujah

Could have killed somebody!

[rey]

Does it really matter how you die? Whether it is a .223 ripping through your gut or a 20mm? Whether you are burned or blown up? Can we still use bayonettes? Dead is dead.

[Kjobs]

I would be happy to all of Iraq coated with a thick layer of this stuff. Wipe it free of vermin!

[MikeA]

The book "No True Glory" which is an extensive account of the liberation of Fallujah, and a very fair-minded accounted showing our follies as well as our triumphs, makes no mention of the "massive use of phosphorous" against anyone, much less civilians. This charge comes from a Eurotrash newspaper. We know their agenda. What would it gain us to even use phosphorous against civilians? Nothing. Not to mention, there were not many civilians left in Fallujah by the time we went in last November because we gave them weeks of warnings to get out. And with them, many of the terrorist vermin escaped with them. What other military power would do that?

I don't know, this just goes to prove we need to stop waging a P.C. war because we'll be attacked by the Eurovermin and other leftist fools no matter what we do, whether we hurt our own interests by giving so many warnings even the terrorists get away or if we just go in with both barrels blazing and don't care who gets wacked.

[coconutt2000]

I do believe you have to be really close to it or touching it to actually get burned by it. The primary use of phosphorus is to produce the smoke.

A chemistry teacher in high school dropped a stick of phosphorus on the floor and smoked out the building. Ironically, I was in a history class next door where the teacher was discussing the use of phosphorus on the battlefield when the white smoke drifted past our windows.

[Sols]

I don't understand why the use of WP was initially denied outright, then confirmed against insurgents only after this Italian rag went after them about it. If they had been honest from the beginning I don't think anyone would be making a big deal out of this, since it isn't a big deal otherwise.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Bing West bump!

[Sax]

This is silly. In the foreign press this is a big deal right now, because the spin it like WP is some quasi-legal, chemical weapon loophole which is blantly untrue.

It's really easy for liberal press to whip the masses into a frenzy. They've found yet another "scaring sounding term," white phosphorus, to use to villify the US.

[Dreagon]

The liberals won't be happy till our soldiers are armed with nothing but harsh (yet politically correct) language.

Screw them. Anytime they bring this up, they should be immediately confronted and demanded to explain their problem with American soldiers defending themselves with legal battlefield weaponry.

[Proud_USA_Republican]

CNN has been runing daily stories accusing the US of torturing gitmo and iraqi prisoners.

And get this, the ACLU is going to represent insurgents who claim they were tortured by US troops at iraqi prisons. And it gets even better, they are trying to sue Donald Rumsfeld.

[elc]

There in lies the crux of the problem - the denial is just another tick under the "Bush Lies" column. This administration and the Pentagon really need to work on their PR campaigns.

Of course there would still be people spreading the "US used chemical weapons" BS, but the denial is just fanning the flames.

[MikeA]

Have you read those yet? No True Glory was a book I just could not put down. Bing West is one hell of a story teller and because he was a Marine he really gets it. Great book!

[caisson71]

If WP is in the inventory, use it.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Not yet. Both are on my "to read" shelf. Perhaps this winter.

[MikeA]

Definitely read No True Glory. I've not read The March Up. But if it's as great as No True Glory, that book will be a real treat as well.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

It can cause painful burn injuries to exposed human flesh.

Ouch! That HURTS!

[Great Caesars Ghost]

Course when they used to drop the willie peter grenades in the tunnels in Vietnam that had to be not fun for the people down there, but now that I think about it the idea there must really have been to smoke'm out much further down the tunnel

[Names Ash Housewares]

How is this book? No True Glory.

They are making a movie of it with Harrison Ford.
That makes me nervous. Is it supportive of the war on terror and the war in Iraq?

[Prodigal Son]

A mortar illumination round uses WP as its incendiary device does it not? I believe it does. It doesn't matter, it's legal like that and also legal in use for smoke missions or to burn and destroy equipment. As far as personnel go- use HE and WP to get a Shake and Bake. The HE kills 'em and the WP destroys their equipment (uniforms, LBVs, rucksacks, boots, weapons etc) ;-) Now if the enemy is holding onto to his weapon when Mr Willie Pete comes along and burns it up- that's just his bad luck...

What we have here is a few pinheads trying to make a big deal out of absolutely nothing. What they're hoping is that the public doesn't realise a WP round is a standard item. Sure we use it 'indiscriminately'. You can fire up a lot of rounds on a smoke mission or an illuminatin mission. Nothing wrong or unusual about that.