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To: conserv371

Are we sure this isn't some Internet legend or some such nonsense?? Because that is EXACTLY what this had better be or I'll renounce any prior affiliation with the Air Force.


3 posted on 11/15/2005 5:47:05 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline

This is from the ACLJ. It's not a hoax.

They're probably the best line of defense we have against the likes of the ACLU. See the Alliance Defense Fund and Rutherford Institute, as well.


9 posted on 11/15/2005 5:50:56 PM PST by CheyennePress
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To: RightOnline

If this position paper is coming from the ACLJ...trust me, this isn't an internet urban legend. Jay Sekolow had much more important work to do than waste his time on something that isn't actually happening.


10 posted on 11/15/2005 5:51:43 PM PST by borisbob69 (Old shade is better than new shade!)
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To: RightOnline
Are we sure this isn't some Internet legend or some such nonsense??

If Jay is putting this out...you can count on it...NO internet legend here!!!

44 posted on 11/15/2005 6:21:06 PM PST by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
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To: RightOnline

For more sources, go here:

http://news.google.com/advanced_news_search?hl=en&ned=us

put this string in the "all the words" box:
military chaplains Jesus

then hit Google Search

The best I can tell, there is tension in the ranks of the chaplains of
the US Military. My best guess is that the liberal Protestants are
feeling threatned at the growth of the evangelicals within their ranks.


46 posted on 11/15/2005 6:24:01 PM PST by VOA
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To: RightOnline; P-Marlowe; Congressman Billybob; aristeides; blue-duncan

As a former Army Chaplain who is now retired, it is true that they don't want military chaplains to pray in Jesus' name. This is not new. What's new is that they want to codify it into military regulation.

Let's be clear and fair. The military is saying that different events require different responses.

1. If it is a worship service where attendance is voluntary, there is no effort to prevent a military chaplain from praying in Jesus' name. In my entire career, no one ever attempted to tell me what to pray or preach in a worship service.

2. If it is a military ceremony with required attendance by everyone, then they want to enforce this prohibition against praying in Jesus' name. They suppose that some in attendance are not Christian and should not be forced to hear the name of Jesus.

Many will say that the above request is reasonable.

I think not.

a. It prescribes a government authorized mode of prayer. The government says that prayers can be this way and not that way. Violates 1st amendment.

b. It creates a "neutral" faith that does not exist in America and then grants it privileged status. No such religion actually exists in America. It is purely a fabrication of the government, and as such, it violates the establishment of religion clause of the 1st amendment. (Finally, something that actually does appear to be the government endorsing a religion....and this time, the government has created it.)

c. It discriminates. Actually, our Jewish and Islamic chaplains are not so constrained. Jews are free to pray to God. Muslims are free to begin their prayer with their testimony to the supremacy of Allah. So far as I can tell, only Christians are targeted.

d. It isn't necessary. Since it is a ceremony, they don't even have to have a chaplain pray. They can simply not invite one.

e. It is immature. Adults know that pastors of different faiths have different beliefs and practices. If one insists on having a chaplain, and if the chaplain is a baptist, an ADULT would expect a baptist like prayer. If the chaplain is a Jew, then an adult would expect a more Jewish prayer. Allowing these chaplains to be themselves is good cross-cultural education, gives insight into the practices of others, and can be listened to in the same sense one listens to a National Geographic documentary on different religions.

f. Distinctions are unclear in some instances. Some occasions, especially memorial CEREMONIES for the dead have extremely blurred lines. This is only heightened by the presence of family members of the deceased, many of whom want a more religious experience to match their and their deceased loved one's faith. Some will tell the chaplain to have a memorial SERVICE instead, but the commanders want their entire units present to honor a fallen comrade. The lines between service and ceremony get blurred. This might also be true with a command Thanksgiving, Christmas, or other ceremony/event. It would be ironic that a chaplain be asked to pray to open a command Christmas event and not be permitted to mention the name of the one for whom the holiday is named.

g. Freedom is far easier to enforce than is regulation. Simply acknowledge that everyone is different, that they pray differently, and that that's what America is like, and there will be no need to police the thoughts and words of others. Freedom's far easier to enforce...because there is no enforcement necessary.... than having some barracks lawyer keeping track of everyone's violations.


48 posted on 11/15/2005 6:25:27 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: RightOnline

I hope it's not true, but I was in the AF for a full enlistment and wouldn't be surprised if it were true. Many bases were nice according to some, but Dyess AFB was one of the most politically correct sh** holes I've ever seen.


106 posted on 11/15/2005 7:34:50 PM PST by MadManDan
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To: RightOnline

It sounds like an internet legend. But the story is coming from the ACLJ. They are very reputable. I'm dumbfounded. I grew up in the military, and used to help out the base Chaplains in Guantanamo. They are there specifically to provide spiritual support to the men, women, and dependents. How can they do this apart from God?


166 posted on 11/16/2005 3:35:09 AM PST by gitmo (From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.)
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