Boeing Launches New 747-8 Family-- Cargolux and Nippon Cargo to buy up to 34 aircraft

Boeing.com ^ | Nov. 14, 2005 | Staff

[Paleo Conservative]

Look at the new wing tips. There's no way you can mistake it for any previous 747 model.

[Paleo Conservative]

If you want on or off my aerospace ping list, please contact me by Freep mail.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Ping.

[Zetman]

Definitely looks different from the wings on the 744.

In addition, how difficult would it be for the engineers at Boeing to extend that upper deck all the way back to the tail, if they really needed to?? I am guessing that it would not be all that difficult. If Boeing truly needed to have an aircraft to compete with the A380, I am guessing it would be fairly simple for them to transform the 747, and avoid having to design a completely new aircraft from scratch.

[Gamecock]

The 747-8 also fits easily in today's aviation infrastructure, flying into more than 210 airports worldwide without additional, expensive infrastructure changes required.

Translation: Times are tough all over, why would you want to buy a plane, like the one below, that will require co$tly airport modifications?

[RunningWolf]

Well this just put a kaput to the A380 freighter, and if it works good, look for the passenger derivative to follow. And Europe just wasted a whole lot of $ on the 380.

Wolf

[Paleo Conservative]

In addition, how difficult would it be for the engineers at Boeing to extend that upper deck all the way back to the tail, if they really needed to??

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but from what I've read, the hump is optimally placed in front of the wings. If it were moved back farther, it would increase drag. Boeing has some artists renderings of using the existing space behind the hump for crew rests, passenger bunk suites, conference centers and food cart storage areas.

[RunningWolf]

I see now in the article they already have the passenger version.

GOOD BYE A380!!

Wolf

[CALawyer]

"Look at the new wing tips. There's no way you can mistake it for any previous 747 model".

From what I understand, these "blended" winglets are actually more efficient than the vertical winglets seen on the 747-400 and 737 series (and most of the Airbus models).

Early on, Boeing had the insight to design 747 freighters with cargo access through the nose of the plane. Airbus did not design its new A380 freighter as such. This is one reason why 747 freighters are currently the only ones in the series that are selling.

Let's hope some orders for the passenger version of the 747-800 start coming in. Interesting that this version is about seven feet shorter than the cargo version.

[Rokke]

Ditto to both your comments. This is just what the industry is looking for. There are considerable concerns about operating the A380. It's one thing to prepare the infrastructure at airports scheduled to handle the A380, but what about alternates? In the Midwest, for example, airports that can handle the A380 will be few and far between for many years. The same is true in Asia.

[Paleo Conservative]

Interesting that this version is about seven feet shorter than the cargo version.

Notice that the upper deck of the cargo version will be an unstreched 200 series upper deck. The cargo version will allow four more pallets on the main deck (two pairs) and two more pallets in the lower hold. The pasenger version will be stretched both in the lower and upper decks. The lower cargo hold on it will have one more pallet position on each side.

[CALawyer]

Several years ago, Boeing actually had plans for a stretch version of the 747 that would have seated well over 500 passengers and competed with the Airbus A380. Airlines did not show any interest, so the project was dropped. The plan was to add plugs to the main fuselage that would have extended the length by around 35 feet, IIRC. The "hump" on top was to remain about the same length.

Back in the 1980s, McDonnell-Douglas had plans for a double decker (the "MD-12") that would have seated around 600 passengers. Again, there was not much interest in the plane. Based on the drawings, it was a far better looking aircraft than Airbus's whale jet.

The verdict is still out whether the A380 will even break even (especially considering the huge discounts reportedly given to the early customers).

[CALawyer]

"Notice that the upper deck of the cargo version will be an unstreched 200 series upper deck."

I just found this curious, since I believe the current 747-400 and 747-400F are identical in length. One would think Boeing would utilize the same length fuselage for both versions to cut back on some of the development costs, but I'm sure they (and their customers) know what they're doing.

[Zetman]

I'm not an aerospace engineer, but from what I've read, the hump is optimally placed in front of the wings. If it were moved back farther, it would increase drag. Boeing has some artists renderings of using the existing space behind the hump for crew rests, passenger bunk suites, conference centers and food cart storage areas.

I was out looking at the Boeing web site a few months back, and I saw where they had modified a 747 to carry the 787 wings from the factory in Japan to the final assembly plant in the United States. To my eye, that 747 appeared to have had it's second level "hump" extended all the way back to the tail. Admittedly, the inside of the aircraft is completely hollow, to accomodate the cargo. However, from an "exterior" standpoint, it looks like they have already done it. You may be right, though. If they took all that empty space, and made it into 2 levels of passenger seating, maybe that would throw off the balance of the aircraft. Who knows?? I am not an engineer either!!

Incidently, the 744 already has two crew rest areas - one in the cockpit area, directly behind the two pilot's chairs (a seperate little room with 2 bunk beds), and another rest area in the base of the tail (with recliners and bunks to sleep 4 or 5 - I can't remember the exact number). I am not sure if other models of the 747 also have these, I only had access to 744's.

[Paleo Conservative]

. To my eye, that 747 appeared to have had it's second level "hump" extended all the way back to the tail.

The whole upper fuselage is being rebuilt on those planes. Here's a link from an article I posted last February.

Boeing's 747 Large Cargo Freighter Development on Plan

[RunningWolf]

Cant say for sure, but I would guess that modified 747 with the extended hump is flying those wings in that cargo compartment unpressurized, or at least not to the psi the flight deck is at. What say you?

Wolf

[Gamecock]

There are considerable concerns about operating the A380.

Well Rokke, now that you mention it, BA chief hints he may buy new Boeing, not Airbus

Is he positioning BA to get some deep discounts from Airbus or speaking the truth? Time will tell.

[Paleo Conservative]

Here's another article that was just updated 10 minutes ago.

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Boeing_747.html

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 · Last updated 12:18 a.m. PT

Boeing launching new 747 airplane

By ALLISON LINN AP BUSINESS WRITER

SEATTLE -- Boeing Co. is launching bigger, more efficient versions of its 747 jumbo jet, in a move that will put more competitive pressure on rival Airbus SAS and ensure continued production of the storied airplane.

The Chicago-based company said late Monday that Luxembourg-based Cargolux Airlines International SA has ordered 10 freighter versions of the new airplane, dubbed the 747-8, with purchase rights for 10 more. Nippon Cargo Airlines of Japan has ordered eight of the freighter planes, with options for six more. Both airlines will begin receiving the planes in the latter half of 2009.

The firm orders from the two companies are worth $5 billion at list prices, although airlines typically negotiate steep discounts.

"We are thrilled to have Cargolux and Nippon Cargo choose the new 747-8 and become the launch customers for this next generation of the proud and valuable 747 airplane family," Alan Mulally, head of Boeing's Seattle-based commercial airplanes division, said in a statement.

The new airplanes will use technologies and General Electric Co. engines designed for Boeing's forthcoming 787 airplane to make the 747 quieter and more efficient, Mulally said.

The new passenger version of Boeing's four-engine widebody airplane will seat 450 people, up from 416 in the most current model, and will feature a redesigned interior. It will be nearly 12 feet longer than the current 747, and will be capable of flying 9,200 miles.

The freighter version will be about 18 feet longer than the current freighter model, the 747-400.

Both versions of the current 747 are nearly 232 feet long.

Analyst Richard Aboulafia said the 747-8 launch will likely increase pressure on rival Airbus, which is preparing for its superjumbo A380 to enter service next year. A new, slightly larger 747 could potentially reduce the market for Airbus's plane, a mammoth offering that can carry between 550 and 800 passengers in a doubledecker cabin.

"It helps box the A380 into an even smaller niche," Aboulafia said.

Airbus has won 159 firm orders for the A380 so far, at a list price of $292 million.

Boeing had been shopping a redesigned 747 around for more than a year, as it sought to garner enough interest to launch the new plane.

Without a new model, some had begun to question how long production would continue for the 747, a fabled workhorse that has been in the skies for 35 years. Boeing has recently seen business pick up somewhat for the freighter version of its current 747 model, but the company has not received an order for a passenger 747 in several years.

Aboulafia said he expects that the bulk of the orders for the new 747 will also be for the freighter version, but he thinks some passenger versions will be built.

"This would remove any uncertainty about the 747 line," he said.

[Paleo Conservative]

Here's a cool website.

http://747.newairplane.com/

[JoeSixPack1]

From what I understand, these "blended" winglets are actually more efficient than the vertical winglets seen on the 747-400 and 737 series (and most of the Airbus models).

The curvature of the wing discourages the airflow from applying downward pressure to the top of the wing. Less down = more up. :-)