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To: Ichneumon

Here are some of the avenues of investigation that ID scientists want to follow:

1. transcendent creation event where all matter, energy, spacetime began (Big Bang)
2. cosmic fine-tuning
3. fine-tuning of Earth's, the Solar System's and the Milky Way Galaxy's characteristics
4. rapidity of life's origin
5. lack of inorganic kerogen
6. extreme biomolecular complexity
7. Cambrian explosion (sudden appearance of most species during same time period)
8. missing horizontal branches in the fossil record
9. placement and frequency of "transitional forms" in the fossil record
10. fossil record reversal
11. frequency and extent of mass extinctions
12. rapid recovery from mass extinctions (mainly through appearance of new species)
13. duration of time windows for different species
14. frequency, extent, and repetition of symbiosis
15. frequency, extent, and repetition of altruism
16. speciation and extinction rates
17. recent origin of humanity (as opposed to common descent)
18. huge biodeposits (needed to sustain humanity)
19. molecular clock rates (which show humanity's recent origin)

I find it perfectly reasonable that they should be able to follow whatever lines of inquiry shows promise. Anybody disagree?


256 posted on 11/13/2005 1:40:29 PM PST by Liberty Wins (Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it.)
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To: Liberty Wins
You forgot one:

20. global flooding, 2304 BC (explain lack of evidence)

257 posted on 11/13/2005 1:44:59 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Liberty Wins
Here are some of the avenues of investigation that ID scientists want to follow:

No one's stopping them.

Most are areas that real scientists (as opposed to the "ID scientists") are already exploring, and have been for quite some time. And unfortunately for the ID folks, the results to date overwhelmingly support evolution.

And I'll bet fifty bucks that the actual scientists achieve more results and breakthroughs in these fields than the "ID gang" does in their thousand-year-old fruitless game of, "I know there must be evidence of design in here *somewhere*, if we just keep looking hard enough..."

But as usual, the ID folks manage to misunderstand even basic science -- I love the goofy screwup in this one on your list:

7. Cambrian explosion (sudden appearance of most species during same time period)

Um, no, sorry. "Most species" have appeared in the 500+ million years *AFTER* the Cambrian. Like 99+% of the ones which have lived on the Earth. There are a few hundred species which appeared in the Cambrian. There are over THREE MILLION currently living on Earth (none of which existed during the Cambrian), and countless more which have existed in between (like at least tens of thousands of dinosaur species, etc).

If the IDers can't even get the *easy* stuff right, how can we trust them with the hard stuff?

I find it perfectly reasonable that they should be able to follow whatever lines of inquiry shows promise. Anybody disagree?

Not at all. They're perfectly free to go chasing whatever they like. No one would dream of stopping them.

All we ask is that they stop lying about real science, and stop trying to dishonestly pretend that their half-assed efforts to date are actual science. Is *that* too much to ask?

271 posted on 11/13/2005 2:27:12 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: Liberty Wins
I find it perfectly reasonable that they should be able to follow whatever lines of inquiry shows promise.

Fine with me. I wish they'd just get on with it instead of whining about how badly they've been mistreated by those mean ol' scientists and about how, no, they've not personally done any experiments related to ID due to their pressing book tour and speaking schedules, but somebody who has the time probably should look into the possiblility of maybe considering coming up with some sort of experiment.

409 posted on 11/14/2005 6:53:25 AM PST by RogueIsland
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