'We Hate France And France Hates Us'

They are gathered, as every night, on the edge of the car park at the foot of the block. Far enough into the shadows not to be easily seen; close enough to the stairwell to leg it inside if the police come near.

Sylla, Sossa, Karim, Rachid, Mounir and Samir are the names they give. The oldest is 21, the youngest 15. One is an apprentice plumber; another is on work experience as a cook at a cafe in nearby Aulnay-sous-Bois; one is claiming benefit; two are (sort of) at school. Three are "known to the police".

This estate, the Rougemont in Sevran, about 15 miles north of Paris, was one of the first to flare in France's outbreak of rolling urban violence, which has lasted 12 nights and in which nearly 6,000 cars have gone up in flames, dozens of schools, community centres and shops have been wrecked, and 1,500 people arrested. There are many reasons for the violence. "Because we hate, because we're mad, because we've had it up to here," said Rachid, parka hood up against the cold. "Look around you. This place is sh**, it's a dump. We have nothing here. There's nothing for us."

Sylla, 18, has a more specific target for his rage. "Les keufs, man, the cops. They're Sarkozy's and Sarkozy must go, he has to shut his mouth, say sorry or just f*** off. He shows no respect. He calls us animals, he says he'll clean the cités with a power hose. He's made it worse, man. Every car that goes up, that's one more message for him."

The interior minister's forces, of which there are some 9,500 on duty around the country, are loathed. "They harass you, they hassle you, they insult you the whole time, ID checks now, scooter checks next. They call you nigger names," said Karim, 17. "I got caught the other week smoking on the train. OK, you shouldn't smoke on the train. But we get to Aulnay station, there are six cops waiting for us, three cars. They did the whole body search, they had me with my hands on the roof of the car. One said: 'Go back home, Arab. Screw your race'."

The prime minister, Dominique de Villepin, said yesterday that France would "guarantee public order to all its citizens", although the violence might take "some time" to quell. The government approved emergency measures announced on Monday, imposing curfews at local authorities' discretion. The penalty for those who violate them could be two months in jail.

On the streets after midnight on Monday, the measure provoked disbelief. "It's bad, it's really serious," said Djaoued, 21, a couple of miles down the road near the Chêne-Pointu estate in Clichy-sous-Bois, where the riots began on October 27.

"On the radio they said the last time they used that law was in the Algerian war. Is that stupid or what? Ninety percent of the people who live here are Arabs. What does that tell them? Fifty years later, you're still different? We're not allowed outside, and everyone else is?"

Back in Sevran, someone was attempting to set fire to George-Brassens college. Sirens wailed as half a dozen police cars and fire engines screamed along the Avenue André Rousseau.

"It's so easy," said Ali, 16. "You need a beer bottle, a bit of petrol or white spirit, a strip of rag and a lighter. Cars are better, though, when the tank goes. One of you smashes a window, the other lobs the bottle."

Ali's friend was an Arsenal fan: "Thierry Henry, man! But he never scores for France." Does he feel French? "We hate France and France hates us," he spat, refusing to give even his first name. "I don't know what I am. Here's not home; my gran's in Algeria. But in any case France is just f****** with us. We're like mad dogs, you know? We bite everything we see. Go back to Paris, man."

Sylla summed it up. "We burn because it's the only way to make ourselves heard, because it's solidarity with the rest of the non-citizens in this country, with this whole underclass. Because it feels good to do something with your rage," he said.

"The guys whose cars get torched, they understand. OK, sometimes they do. We have to do this. Our parents, they should understand. They did nothing, they suffered in silence. We don't have a choice. We're sinking in sh*t, and France is standing on our heads. One way or another we're heading for prison. It might as well be for actually doing something."

This article actually seems to sum up the situation rather well.

It seems the average Frenchman has little regard for the youth from the banlieues. They will not hire them, except for the most menial tasks, and don't want them living in their neighborhoods. The attitude of the average native French toward these people is probably represented well by the policeman quoted in the article.

And the beur youth in turn seem to despise the native French.

It seems the beur youths understand well that if they go beyond property damage, the French police will take the gloves off, and will kill them.

What will the future bring? The government will make gestures toward integrating these people into French society, consisting principally of throwing money at the problem. But these will be largely ineffective, because the reputation of these beur youths in the mind of the average Frenchman is now even worse than before. Who will want to hire them now, or live amongst them?

So the beur neighborhoods will become even more physically separated and patrolled, in order to protect the rest of France. More and more of these beurs will become criminals. They cannot be deported, because they are Frenchmen. And France will build many more prisons, and these prisons will become full.

And other beurs will become radical islamofascists. There will be terrorist attacks in France, and the French will be forced into making each radical banlieue into a mini-police state for the protection of the native population. And conditions in these areas will become a cause celebre for radical muslims around the world.

All because the French elites and certain French business interests decided many years age that it would be a grand idea to import into France millions of arabs with a radically different culture and religion, for cheap labor.

On the bright side, this French intifada may serve as a wake-up call for western Europe, which may then call a halt to further muslim immigration and pay closer attention to their existing muslim population for signs of terrorist and other antisocial activities.

Speaking of which, I got interested in the original incident as an offshoot of my enthusiasm for viewing satellite views of the riot locations ( made previous to the riots ) using Google Maps. I wondered if I could find the electrical substation where the deaths occurred, and started looking at French language web sites. I found that the substation is an "EDF" , and using this tag, I found a mention that the EDF was at the end of Rue des Bois. It's the street near the center, running NNE to the left of the circle, and terminating at a cluster of dark looking buildings. I think the EDF itself is the small square to the left.

I looked at three or four accounts, using Google translation, and although the police accounts and those of friends and family of the deceased are somewhat at odds, I think they are both consistent with a simple sequence of events. One very anti-police account gave a lot of melodramatic detail, and seemed to be based on a walkthrough of the scene by a reporter along with relatives.

Looking at the view, the wide street running NNE at the left edge is the boundary between Livry-Gargan and Clichy-sous-Bois. All agree that some number of youths were over in L-G, either innocently kicking a soccer ball in the park, or vandalising a construction site. The relatives pooh-pooh the very existence of a construction site, saying there was only a lock-box near a building ( or something like that ) and anyway they didn't touch it ( of course. ) There is no kind of construction site that I can discern in the area I conclude must be the scene of the confrontation, but the satellite view could easily be outdated.

[ An alternative scenario is that they were at the western boundary of C-S-B, about 500meters from the EDF, but this requires them to flee right through the center of town to get to the EDF, which doesn't make sense. I think they had to be near it. ]

This business of being across the town line seems to be significant. Could it be that the cops overinterpreted some suspicious actions because of the large group out of their own area? Whatever. They were accosted, and some were brought into custody, while others fled, presumably including the two victims of the electrocution. It's a big bone of contention whether the police were chasing them and the third youth ( the survivor is 21 years old . ) The relations paint an hysterical account of the boys fleeing in terror, else how could they perform the unthinkable act of leaping the high wall into the deadly EDF ? Yet in the same account a "small boy" points out "the red thing" ( "le truc rouge" ) by means of which the boys entered the enclosure. This was some kind of equipment stashed against the wall.

I gained the impression from my reading that, far from being an enigma ("It is the mystery." ) this whole business was a well established drill - a game between the locals and the cops, since this EDF required fire and electrical workers to access.

There was apparently police radio talk that the boys entered the EDF, clarified to mean that they were headed towards it, but not seen to actually enter it. I surmise that this is important to the police since if they know someone is in there, it's a big deal and they are obliged to initiate a rescue operation. There is in fact a law suit being prepared for failure to rescue persons in danger.

Well, about a half hour later, at 18:12 Oct 27, with the cops back at the station, the lights dim. I'm thinking that they fell, or something, when they tried to climb out. The power people investigate and it's Katy bar the door.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.