Posted on 11/08/2005 2:18:45 AM PST by JoeGar
I have a SIGARMS P239 .357 SIG for concealed carry and inside-the-home defense, but I feel I need a good rifle for neighborhood defense outside -- just in case somebody wants to torch some cars. I'd love an M1 Garand -- just to hear the ka-ching when the clip ejects -- but it's too expensive. The Ruger Mini Thirty looks interesting. What are your suggestions?
I own a mini-30 and very content with it. Stay away from the Chicom ammo and use the steel mags, imho.
Ironic comment, since you appear to have a problem with citizens protecting their own property.
You said that you think we gun owners are hoping(covertly) somebody will threaten our lives or property so we will have an excuse to shoot them because we have the toys to do so , that's what I'm getting from your post # 62 . UNBLIEVABLE !!! Like I said my guns are my insurance against idiots and anarchist , and I hope I never have to use them .
Keltec SU-16C.
Dear, you missed the point. I'm a gun owner myself. I love my guns. And, for the second time, I HAVE had the opportunity to defend myself and my children with a gun. Of course nobody really wants to be attacked. You're getting yourself all twisted into a knot over a bit of wry humor in which I was poking fun at myself as well as all my fellow gun-owners. Please relax.
Show me where I disagreed with people being allowed to protect property? I said that the law in Texas is not like most.
And no, if you are five or six months behind on your car note, you should not have the right to shoot the repossessor.
At first you said all law - it took several posters to convince you about Texas law.
Post 36-- you say a person cannot protect a home if the assailant is unarmed and not threatening --- so if an arsonist says nothing and and is unarmed, he can legally burn your house down and you can only stand and watch. You can only call 911 ?
What if 10 home invaders back a truck up to your house and tell you to stand aside, because they are going to take all your furniture ?
Tell us how you agree with people being allowed to protect property.
How'd you like that SU-16? I was thinking about getting one. Although for the money I can get a AK wannabe.
Ok. Now this is getting stupid. I acknowledged I was wrong about Texas law and you still want to jump on me. In most states, the law is unlike Texas law in that you cannot protect "property alone" with deadly force. There usually needs to be some other factor such as a threat or presence of a weapon.
If that's outside your immediate budget, you could pick up a barrelled receiver for now and begin adding parts as availability and budget permit. And you'd thereby become VERY familiar withye olde Garand's innards....
I think for vehicular carry a lever-action rifle might be a pretty fair answer, since the tube magazine would permit safe carry of a full tube with just a crank of the lever allthat's neaded to be ready for bear...or smaller varmints. They're nice and flat, and sling mounting offers no great challenge.
My own experience has been that such troubles are most frequent at night, or near sundown with nighttime coming soon. Accordingly, a red dot sight or other electro-optic unit is worth some thought, as is the consideration of muzzle flash and ammunition selection.
The other side of that coin is that even a cheap, and not so accurate or reliable (both only to a point) is much better than no gun at all, which very well might be the only other option.
Not sufficient; how is the thief identified?
So you expect the police to do it for you? Your house will be ashes before they arrive, if they ever do.
Authorized? Authorized by whom?
In Texas deadly force most certainly is permitted under law to protect your property. As far as using a long gun goes, I relate the following story. About 10 years ago, more or less, a man living in South Dallas had the custom wheels on his car stolen. After he replaced them, some punks tried to steal them again. He shot several of them with an SKS, killing one or two (like I said it's been awhile). This included shooting into the "get away" car, which wasn't even "getting" yet. The Grand Jury no-billed him, because what he did was specifically protected under Texas Law. (Stopping theft during the nighttime). Torching your car would certainly be considered "Criminal Mischief".
From the Texas Penal code :
§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force] against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
And the 30-30 isn't a bad choice itself. Sort of an Old West Stealth "assault weapon". It's not as powerful as the .308 or 30-06, but at the ranges most folks can shoot it accurately enough to hit a man sized target, it will get the job done, especially if loaded with something like Remington's old "CoreLoc" bullets. Or you could use something like the lever action Marlin, Winchester, or clones of the Winchester, chambered for a heavy pistol caliber, like .44 Magnum. There are even .45 ACP and .44 magnum chambered semi-automatics. (Marlin Camp Carbine or the old Ruger model).
When I first moved to San Antonio, I had my computer desk set up in the bay window of my apartment, which faced a fairly busy street. I often FReeped with an M-1 Carbine leaning up against the table. Any Gang Bangers doing a drive by would have been well advised not to miss, cause even that little "War Baby" would reach out and touch 'em at longer ranges than almost any handgun they'd be likely to have.
Now I've got a brick wall between my computer position and the street, but still have at minimum a .45 ACP within arms reach.
I'm also surrounded by members of III Corps. (i.e 1st Cav, 4th ID, and supporting units). I'm often lulled to sleep to the sound of not too distant tank and/or artillery fire.
There's a word of difference between a tagger and an arsonist. The first doesn't intend to destroy anything really. The latter is in the process of doing so. In a civil disturbance type situation, the guy torching your car is just about as likely to torch your house, with you in it.
Of course either activity would come under the umbrella of "criminal mischief", and would be grounds for use of deadly force in Texas if committed during the nighttime at least. However a civil jury is much less likely to be sympathetic if you pop a tagger, than if you defend your property and/or life from an arsonist.
And just how was the "deadbeat" supposed to know it was a legitimate Repo man making off with the loan companies property? You want to repo something, come to the door, knock and serve your papers.
While it depends on the neighborhood geography, if some guy is headed my way with Molotov Cocktail in hand, 100 yards might be a good place to see to it that he gets to "drink" that cocktail himself.
In my neighborhood, I could easily see some guy running towards the house 100 yards away. Of course to get to my house, he'd have to make it through a good chunk of the Army's III Corps, most of which became private gun owners as soon as they found out how easy and legal that is in Texas. It wouldn't be an easy 100 yards for Mr. Molotov Man.
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