Posted on 11/07/2005 5:31:57 AM PST by FerdieMurphy
While American soldiers successfully combat terrorists and insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, a widespread insurgency continues in France's emanating from Islamic migrant areas.
The violence and destruction spread across the country yesterday with more than 900 cars torched in one night. Observers, experts in security and police operations, wonder if the French are capable of putting down this insurrection.
French police initiated a helicopter response and claim they arrested close to 200 Muslim rioters. Police commanders and their superiors say they intend to step up action against rioters responsible for 10 nights of violence.
The destruction has spread to the outskirts of other cities around the country – including Toulouse, Rennes, Nantes and Lille – were hit by a wave of arson attacks.
Cases of arson were also observed in parts of central Paris. For instance, a Molotov cocktail consumed four vehicles near a major square, Place de la Republique, while six vehicles went up in smoke in another district..
Despite calls for calm, 918 cars were torched yesterday and 897 the previous day. One American national security expert cynically told this writer that he wouldn't be surprised if the Chirac government surrendered to these homegrown insurgents.
"They [the French] just may hold to their reputation for appeasement and surrender," he said.
Seven police surveillance helicopters armed with high-tech cameras hovered above Paris and other locations in the hopes of pursuing and identifying the the mostly young North African and Arab arsonists, who have taken to setting fires then fleeing the scene, frequently on motor bikes.
Special squads of police trained in special operations smashed through doors in a public housing project in the Paris suburb of Les Mureaux where they arrested youths who had tossed heavy objects, such as supermarket trolleys, on police and on a heavily traveled road.
Over 2,200 more police officers in riot gear and weaponry were deployed to patrol the streets while over 100 additional firefighters were sent to the Paris region under attack.
Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who's been the target of a great deal of criticism for calling the rioters "scum" and wishing to take a hardline on the rioters, visited a police command headquarters in southern Paris overnight. During an impromptu press conference he said that the gangs responsible for the violence have become increasingly organized. They have been seen using mobile telephones to relay police movements and internet blogs to urge unrest elsewhere.
Overall, over 550 insurgents have been arrested since the riots began, some of them minors found carrying gasoline bombs.
The violence erupted on October 27 when two teenagers, one an African immigrant and the other an Arab, were electrocuted while hiding in an electrical sub-station after fleeing a routine police identity check. The checks are part of France's homeland security strategy. Some left-wing politicians and groups have accused the French police of "Gestapo" tactics when dealing with Muslims, and they've leveled the old standby accusation so familiar to Americans -- racial profiling.
So far no one has been killed during the civil unrest, according to the French government, but at two civilians have been badly burned by Molotov cocktails. They were a firefighter and a handicapped woman who was deserted on board and unable to get off an ambushed bus. An elderly man is reported to be in a coma after being struck by an attacker in a housing project.
He did or he didn't? OK, who has it right? Did he or didn't he?
Clear the square with gunfire.
We've had riots here before and we'll have riots again.
People have defended themselves and their property in those riots.
Police have somtimes taken several days to supress the riots.
For there to have been 8 days of riots with no deaths and only a couple serious injuries of anyone, there must be a very serious state of apathy in France.
I'm sure they would disagree. They likely consider themselves more civilized because neither their rioters, thier police, nor the civilian victims resort to using serious violence in the face of what is mainly attacks on property.
I consider it to show apathy that no one is willing to take a stand against these people. Theirs is a civilization in decline.
The no longer understand that they need to work to make their lives better. Their government cannot continue to provide for them.
Unless they make some serious changes, unemployment will continue to rise. The desperation felt by their unemployed young adults will continue to rise until it expresses itself in ways more serious than property damage.
As you can see, the French simply aren't prepared to deal with such a problem.
Either they fix their serious economic and governmental problems, or they are facing a revolution, and likely not a peaceful one. Maybe not now, but unless they do something to at least slow the decline, I don't think it's decades off anymore.
There is a difference between crime and war. Unfortunately, most post-enlightened countries (Western first-world nations mostly) do not understand the difference, and try to treat war as mere crime - and lose.
Prime example: Saddam Hussein being 'on trial' - no law covers his moral guilt, nor his threat to others, yet there is no question what should be done with him. Trying to "bring Saddam to justice" will last decades and highly risks him being freed, as what he did was lawful (him being the law there & then).
Relevant example: current French insurgents are acting not to violate the law, but to overthrow it. That is not crime, that is war.
That was a thread last night about the press reporting on the riots and the writer wrote about Sarkozy actually calling them thugs.
I didn't post to it, so I don't have the quote handy.
[Cringe]
They will. Too late.
The problem with France is Chirac and Villepin.
If the government officials in France are incapapble of presenting a vote of no cofidence to remove these two war criminals from office, the Gallic Cock will soon be speaking Arabic.
PS. Sure its fun to make jokes of the French but I wonder how we would deal with a similar situation in America?""
All the more reason why we have to proetect our right to keep and bear ARMS- GUNS, that is.
We are being brainwashed every day that ANY situation can be talked down. It cannot, and this mess in France proves it.
"The citizens of America, faced with violence in the streets and an inept response by govenment, would do as we have always done: we'll take up arms and end the insurrection ourselves."
The problem in France is that the government is creating the problem.
I do not say that in defense of the rioters. They are scum that are lashing out at innocent people.
However, the policies of the government are what is creating hte high unemployment and lack of hope among the people there.
In America, I'm sure the public would rise up against the rioters. However, put down an insurrection against an oppressive government that is destroying the country? I would think that would depend a lot on the insurrection's goals and methods.
Bingo.
'tis narcissistic to believe that, with enough dialog, everyone will come around to your side.
By the beginning of day 3 the nation guard would be out in force to save the rioters from the Texans.
The truth is, he most certainly did.
Race riots expose France's fault lines - The Australian - WORLD; Pg. 11 - Byline: Emma-Kate Symons 11/02/2005Lexis Nexis is a wonderful thing.Interior Minister NicolasSarkozy reiterated his vow of zero... by using words such as "scum" to describe violent youths.. Mr Sarkozy was "poaching the territory of the extreme...for the use of language such as "scum" to describe the young people of the...FRENCH RIOTS: 'RIOTING HAS SPREAD BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE IGNORED' - The Independent (London) - First Edition; NEWS; Pg. 2 - Byline: DOMINIQUE SOPO PRESIDENT, SOS RACISME - 11/05/2005
Interior Minister, NicolasSarkozy, who threatened to 'hose down' the 'scum' on the estates.
There's more but two independent references of different dates should suffice.
Usually, people get the government they deserve.
The people of France are now reaping what they have sown. They should have voted down socialism; but they didn't. They should have insisted on keeping the right to bear arms; but they didn't. They should have nipped this moose-limb problem in the bud on the first night - but - (you guessed it) they DIDN'T!
France cannot long survive in the face of ever-increasing, ever-spreading unrest. It couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of sissy socialists.
I just hope that the USA doesn't get sucked into bailing them out AGAIN.
Several reasons why a similar episode will not occur in the United States anytime soon:
a) This is an armed population that would not stand for this kind of behavior, and which would actively patrol and defend their homes and neighborhoods.
b) The US Muslim population is quite small and densely concentrated in several urban areas, that are easily identified and surrounded.
c) We encourage people (although they very often don't take us up on it) to assimilate and join the "American Dream", France has merely imported minimum-wage tax payers to suppport free maid service for ethnic French upon retirement at 50.
d) Our Muslims have learned a few lessons in the last couple of years, like, mess with the United States and you get a JDAM delivered for breakfast. Mess with the NYPD, LAPD, etc, and SWAT teams start showing up locked and loaded.
e) We're actually watching (a fair number) of our radicals these days, and letting them know it.
f) Most muslims in this country have no need or inclination to bite the hand that feeds them. They actually LIKE it here.
...sure hope the international Red Cross looks in on how their treated...
..snickering so wide I dribbled coffee
Doogle
France will always be there for us when she needs us.
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