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Science as Kansas sees it
Kansas City Star ^ | 11/6/05 | David Klepper

Posted on 11/06/2005 6:26:17 AM PST by Non-Sequitur

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The paper went on to mention that 5 board members are up for re-election in 2006. The lone Democrat - opposed to the changes and representing Kansas City, Ks., a safe Democrat seat - and 4 supporters of the changes. If the moderate Republicans can defeat 2 of the social conservatives then sanity can be restored to the Kansas education system.
1 posted on 11/06/2005 6:26:17 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: PatrickHenry

Evolution bump. Note how our favorite educator, Connie Morris, is 'extemely anxious to put this behind us..." No doubt she has other damage to inflict.


2 posted on 11/06/2005 6:29:40 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

My guess is that major universities will announce their unwillingness to accept Kansas diplomas. The state schools might even be disaccredited.

This can happen. My local schools were disaccredited (some decades ago).


3 posted on 11/06/2005 6:32:16 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Conservatives and moderates. Where are the liberals?


4 posted on 11/06/2005 6:34:37 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Non-Sequitur
Darwinism cannot explain scientifically the origins of life. It offers verifiable, empirical evidence for its theory only at a microbiological level for the origin of species. At the macro level, it records observations that make it plausible.

It wil be defended tooth and nail but materialists needing it as a philosophical foundation, but there is growing erosion of its possibility as it has been taught and understood for a long time.

5 posted on 11/06/2005 6:42:46 AM PST by TheGeezer
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To: mlc9852
Conservatives and moderates. Where are the liberals?

In Lawrence, KS.. ( University town and rabidly Liberal )
At least that is the one Liberal pocket I am familiar with..

Most of KS is either Conservative or Moderate..
Where you find concentrations (infestations?) of Liberals is in the college towns..
Little pockets of infection scattered throughout the state..

6 posted on 11/06/2005 6:55:45 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: TheGeezer
Darwins TOE does not even attempt to explain the origins of life..
I am sure you know that full well, but continue to misrepresent TOE at every opportunity..

As for the TOE's erosion as an explanation of speciation, the evidence supporting it continues to grow..
The evidence that already exists is overwhelmingly supportive..

7 posted on 11/06/2005 7:03:09 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: TheGeezer
but there is growing erosion of its possibility as it has been taught and understood for a long time.

Only in the minds of the irrational.

Next the ID nuts will be attacking gravity: "we see no proof of gravity; our evidence suggests humans are kept in place by the hand of an invisible sky-god."

8 posted on 11/06/2005 7:08:45 AM PST by Kjobs
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To: Non-Sequitur

Ah, we haven't had a thread about the idiocy in Kansas for a few weeks. This is good weekend material. Cranking up the ping machine ...


9 posted on 11/06/2005 7:09:00 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 310 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
Check out what's new in The List-O-Links.
For newbies: But it's "just a theory" and How to argue against a scientific theory.

10 posted on 11/06/2005 7:10:32 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Reality is a harsh mistress. No rationality, no mercy)
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To: Kjobs
Next the ID nuts will be attacking gravity: "we see no proof of gravity; our evidence suggests humans are kept in place by the hand of an invisible sky-god."

Well, I'm glad to see that this can be a dispassionate discussion! Exclamations like yours cannot dismiss criticism of what is, finally, only a theory.

When advocates of pure TOE can demonstrate repeatedly, under identical conditions, in a variety of locations and times, the competition among complex organic and inorganic compounds leading to viable primitive life, then I will say that TOE absent everthing else is science. Until then, begging to introduce immense spans of time as the deus ex machina of a materialist theory is the same thing as saying "The gods did it!"

The inadequacies of TOE as an explanation of origins of life, which seem to be forgotten when it is taught, must be mentioned even as the truths of TOE are explained. Otherwise, education is incomplete and limited by secularist and materialist prejudices and opinion.

We wouldn't want that, would we?

11 posted on 11/06/2005 7:24:51 AM PST by TheGeezer
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To: TheGeezer

There is no erosion of support among people who understand it or who are willing to approach it with an open mind.


12 posted on 11/06/2005 7:26:12 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopechne is walking around free)
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To: TheGeezer
"The inadequacies of TOE as an explanation of origins of life, which seem to be forgotten when it is taught, must be mentioned even as the truths of TOE are explained. Otherwise, education is incomplete and limited by secularist and materialist prejudices and opinion."

Any teacher who spoke about the *failure* of evolution to explain the origins of life should be fired. They would either be amazingly incompetent or liars. The ToE has never been concerned with life's origins, any more than the Theory of Universal Gravity attempts to explain the origins of matter or the Germ Theory attempts to explain the origin of germs. And we know that you know better. Why must you therefore make things up?

13 posted on 11/06/2005 7:34:39 AM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: TheGeezer

You might wish to explain why the icons of intelligent design -- Behe and Denton -- have accepted evolution as a fact, including common descent. There is no position among people educated in science that does not accept common descent, even among the critics of Darwinian evolution.


14 posted on 11/06/2005 7:41:33 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: TheGeezer
Exclamations like yours cannot dismiss criticism of what is, finally, only a theory.

Haven't seen you around geezer. You obviously haven't been corrected yet on your mistaken definition of "theory". It does not mean "guess" as non-scientists assume. It the context of evolution, it is an explanation of how things work. As in the "Theory of Gravity", or "Music Theory", or "Nuclear Theory". Evolution is both a scientific theory, because it explains how things work, and an observed fact, because it does in fact occur, as even ID proponents have begun to acknowledge when they get under oath at trial.

When advocates of pure TOE can demonstrate repeatedly, under identical conditions, in a variety of locations and times, the competition among complex organic and inorganic compounds leading to viable primitive life

Obviously you have also not been corrected on your mistaken conflation of various hypothesis of how the first life came to be, vs. how species arose via evolution theory. The two are utterly unconnected. Whether the first life form was "planted" by God or a space alien, or arose via abiogensis is irrelevant to the observed fact that evolution occurs and is the cause of the various species.

Now you know these things, and you can either dispute them with me (in which case you will continue to be wrong), or you can move on to other issues regarding evolution. It will be interesting to see if you bring these issues up in later threads.

15 posted on 11/06/2005 7:42:56 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: mlc9852

> Conservatives and moderates. Where are the liberals?

Sitting on the sidelines, laughing. Congratulating themselves for the yeomans work being doen by their supposedly conservative useful idiots on the school board, busy making all conservatives look like uneducated, anti-science boobs.


16 posted on 11/06/2005 7:44:53 AM PST by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: PatrickHenry

PatrickHenry, allow me to express my appreciation for your excellent EvolutionPing. I've never come across an argument for Intelligent Design that would survive your list of caveats under "How to argue against a scientific theory."

What's really funny about the whole thing is that the concept of Intelligent Design is completely in harmony with the Theory of Evolution. Most Catholics accept the scientific theory of evolution as the means God used to create humans. The God part is based on faith. The evolution part is based on evidence. An elegant solution to the problem, and why Catholics don't feel the need to insert God into biology and astronomy texts. I guess they aren't as insecure about their faith as the folks on the Kansas school board.


17 posted on 11/06/2005 7:45:46 AM PST by edweena
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To: Non-Sequitur
He [Kris Van Meteren] said he hopes it’s not necessary, but his side will keep pushing until evolution comes down from its pedestal in the academic world.

The fanatic at work. He's gonna do what he's gonna do. Consequences be damned and who cares what the scientific evidence is?

18 posted on 11/06/2005 7:46:50 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: orionblamblam
Congratulating themselves for the yeomans work being doen by their supposedly conservative useful idiots on the school board, busy making all conservatives look like uneducated, anti-science boobs.

What he said...

19 posted on 11/06/2005 7:47:53 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: PatrickHenry

Thanks for the ping!


20 posted on 11/06/2005 7:49:34 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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