San Francisco Gun Vote: Tough Law or Thin Gesture?

NY Times ^ | November 5, 2005 | MATT RICHTEL

[neverdem]

SAN FRANCISCO - With warring gangs igniting a surge in homicides here in the last year, voters on Tuesday will consider a sweeping proposal to curb the violence: the nation's strictest municipal gun control ordinances, a measure that would ban possession, sale and manufacture of handguns and ammunition within city limits.

Polling data taken over the summer suggested that the measure, Proposition H, enjoyed overwhelming support of likely voters. But it has since come under attack from a coalition of critics - including the National Rifle Association and a smattering of community groups - and legal experts say that should it pass, it is likely to face a stiff challenge in state courts.

Should it succeed in banning handguns, it would join big cities like Washington, which banned handgun ownership in 1976, and Chicago, which in 1982 banned manufacture, sale and possession of handguns, but grandfathered in guns owned when the ordinance went into effect. Chicago has since banned the sale of ammunition.

Whatever the measure's fate in San Francisco, it has sparked some conflict. The San Francisco police union has lambasted the local elected official who authored the ordinance, which it said would do little except take guns out of the hands of law-abiding residents. The police have also said the law, which would require residents to surrender weapons by March 1 of next year could present an enforcement headache.

The measure provides for the city's board of supervisors, in consultation with the law enforcement community, to determine after the election what will be the penalty for violators.

"This is putting a Band-Aid on heart surgery," said Gary P. Delagnes, president of the San Francisco Police Officer's Association. He called it another "silly idea" from elected officials whose progressive ideas are not grounded in the realities of fighting crime.

[Americanwolfsbrother]

If this passes does it mean I have to carry my AR-15 if I visit S.F.?AWB

[Skywalk]

Sounds like someone needs to pull an 'insurgency' in San Francisco before it's too late.

[CindyDawg]

Well that should take carry of the crime. Just tell the bad boys they have to turn in their guns.

[Sender]

Brilliant, the gangs are finished now. What will they do with their time after they have to comply with another law?

[DakotaRed]

The People's Republic of San Francisco not too long ago decided it would write it's own constitution and legalize gay marriage, without any benefit of vote. Now, they see it appropriate to violate the standing Constitution of the United States and deny law-abiding citizens their legal right to gun ownership.

Any bets the gangs and other criminals will suddenly surrender their weapons and become law-abiding?

Maybe teaching the law-abiding citizens responsible handling of guns and arming them against the gangs could help the Police curb gang violence?

Just one more reason I stay out of the State of California entirely.

[Billthedrill]

It's only a test case. If it gets by, they'll declare crime to be illegal and viola! - San Francisco will be a utopia.

[LasVegasMac]

What will they do with their time after they have to comply with another law?

Law?

Silly you.

It takes a "Resolution" to get anything done.

You are just WAY behind the power curve.

LVM

[austinmark]

Get out of California,(while it's still legal to do so) and Never Darken it's Socialist doorstep again!
Yet ANOTHER reason why I don't live there.


.

[Travis McGee]

This is a terrific idea. Everybody knows that DC and Chicago are now crime-free.

[willyd]

Why did the murder U.S. rate rise during the 1980s and early 1990s and then decline after that?

Why was the murder rate for teens so much higher than the murder rate for older groups during the 1980s and early 1990s?

Researchers Alfred Blumstein and Richard Rosenfeld note that the murder rate in the U.S. rose dramatically during the 1980s and then dropped again after its peak in 1993. The authors examine the U.S. murder rates and seek to explain the causes behind the trends.

Source

In issuing the report, JPI Director Vincent Schiraldi commented, “It can truly be said that the 1990s have been our most punishing decade. As we enter the new millennium, the ascendance of prisons as our decade's major public works project and social program is a sad legacy.” JPI policy analyst Jason Ziedenberg added, “We have to find alternatives to incarceration to solve America's pressing social problems.” Source

I think the answer to these questions are pretty self evident...more criminals in jail equals fewer murders...

[Liberate California]

You guys are lucky you can leave. I'm in the Army stationed in SAN FRANCISCO--'Vive la Resistance'

[umgud]

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. (THR)

[Wolfhound777]

Should it succeed in banning handguns, it would join big cities like Washington, which banned handgun ownership in 1976, and Chicago, which in 1982 banned manufacture, sale and possession of handguns, but grandfathered in guns owned when the ordinance went into effect. Chicago has since banned the sale of ammunition.

And we saw how effective this was in Chicago and DC in lowering the murder rates.

When will these gun control idiots realize that gang members don't legally purchase their weapons and ammo from the local gun shop?

[Liberate California]

You don't understand California thought:

These gangbangers and criminals are in their current lifestyle as a result of society failing to provide an adequate standard of living and surroundings and friends and family, for nothing in return. Therefore, they are the victims. The people they hurt and kill are merely their cry for help.

Can someone give my Therapist a hug?

[Wolfhound777]

Yes, it's unfortunate. Good luck out there :)

[Fee]

I would love to see SF be hit with a major earthquake after the law abiding residents turn in their weapons. No lights, breakdown of law enforcement and federal aid over one week away, let us see how the liberals handle roving gangs of looters, rapists and car jackers?

[Liberate California]

And if that happened, they want to know where the military is. Do they actually think the Army gives a rat's butt about them, the way they act.

[river rat]

The REAL solution to ending Gun Crimes...

EXECUTE every bastard that commits a felony using or in possession of a gun....

But of course -- the lunatics in San Fransicko are opposed to the Death Penalty, except for the unborn or nearly born...

Semper Fi

[InABunkerUnderSF]

Guns? What Guns? Who owns gun?

A few weeks ago I bumped into my upstairs neighbor in the garage while I was on my way out to the East Bay for a little practice with my Stoeger and Winchester '94. I carry them in a hard case that I guess looks a little like a guitar case. She asked me how long I'd been playing. I told her ever since I was a kid. Evidently it never occurred to her to ask why there was a lock on my "guitar" case and on the tackle box I was carrying too for that matter.

Most of the people around here have no clue how well armed some of their neighbors are. The gun ban is opposed by everyone from the conservative Catholic Filipinos in my neighborhood to "The Pink Pistols" - a gay gun owners group. I think this gun ban will loose worse than the one in Brasil but I've never been a good judge of SF politics. Just in case, I'm looking for a new place to live.