Posted on 11/02/2005 8:53:08 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
Monday, 31 October 2005, 11:06 GMT
Ghettos shackle French Muslims
Rioting by youths in a Paris suburb has highlighted the discontent among sections of France's immigrant population.
The BBC News website's Henri Astier explores the sense of alienation felt by many French Muslims.
When Nadir Dendoune was growing up in the 1980s, his home town of L'Ile Saint-Denis, north of Paris, was a fairly diverse place.
"We were all poor, but there were French people, East Europeans, as well as blacks and Arabs," says Mr Dendoune, 33, an author and something of a celebrity in his estate.
Two decades on, the complexion of the place has changed.
"On my class photos more than half the kids were white," he says. "On today's pictures only one or two are."
L'Ile St-Denis is among the "suburbs" around French cities where immigrants, notably from former North African colonies, have been housed since the 1960s.
Blighted by bad schools and endemic unemployment, the suburbs are hard to escape.
The immigrants' children and grandchildren are still stuck there - an angry underclass that is increasingly identified through religion.
Ten years ago these youths were seen as French "Arabs".
Now most are commonly referred to, and define themselves, as "Muslims".
Alarm
Many countries have ethnic and religious enclaves. But in France they cause particular alarm, for three reasons.
First, they are not supposed to exist in a nation that views itself as indivisible, and able to assimilate its diverse components.
Separatism, the French are told, is a plague afflicting the Anglo-Saxon multicultural model.
The government bans official statistics based on ethnicity or religion. As a result, no one knows exactly how many Muslims live in the country - at least five million is the best guess.
Ghettos also threaten another tenet of French identity - secularism.
As the country celebrates the centenary of the separation of Church and State, Islam is seen as the biggest challenge to the country's secular model in the past 100 years.
Thirdly, the worldwide rise of Islamic militancy strikes fear in the heart of a country that is home to Western Europe's biggest Muslim community.
French police know that there is no shortage of potential jihadis in the country.
The assertiveness of French Islam is seen as a threat not just to the values of the republic, but to its very security.
A different view
Is such alarm justified? The view from the suburbs invites a nuanced, and ultimately sanguine, assessment.
Some groups do advocate cultural separation for Muslims - but they do not speak for many.
Far more common is the attitude of Nour-eddine Skiker, a youth worker near Paris: "I feel completely French. I will do everything for this country, which is mine."
Mr Skiker's Moroccan origins mean a lot to him. But, like many youths in the suburbs, he sees no contradiction between being French and having foreign roots.
The main problem is that many French people do, says writer Nadir Dendoune.
"How am I supposed to feel French when people always describe me as a Frenchman of Algerian origin? I was born here. I am French. How many generations does it take to stop mentioning my origin?"
And crucially, the suburbs are full of people desperate to integrate into the wider society.
"I do not know a single youth in my estate who does not want to leave," Mr Dendoune says.
France's Muslim ghettos, in short, are not hotbeds of separatism. Neither do they represent a clear challenge to secularism - a doctrine all national Muslim groups profess to support.
"We have no problem with secularism," says Lhaj Thami Breze, president of the Union of Islamic Organisations of France (UOIF).
He argues that by establishing state neutrality in religious matters, the doctrine allows all religions to blossom.
Islam has adapted to local laws - from Indonesia to Senegal - and is adapting to France, says Azzedine Gaci, who heads the regional Muslim council in Lyon.
This is not just the leaders' view. A 2004 poll suggested that 68% of French regarded the separation of religion and state as "important", and 93% felt the same about republican values.
Suspicious minds
All observers agree that jihadism does pose a direct threat to the country.
The fact that - in France as elsewhere - the militants speak for a tiny minority of Muslims does not make the threat less severe.
But as Islam expert Olivier Roy notes, bombers should not be seen as the vanguard of the Muslim people. Jihadis everywhere, he says, are rebelling both against the West and their own community.
The great majority of Muslims resent the extremists in their midst - although many in France do not recognise this.
Yazid Sabeg, an industrialist and writer, says the French have "a real problem" with both Arabs and Islam and equate both with extremism.
The most worrying aspect of the separation between French Muslims and the rest of society is that it breeds suspicion on both sides.
"We must tell youths that France does not want to hold them down," says Rachid Hamoudi, director of the Lille mosque in northern France.
"We must ensure that the community trusts its country, and vice-versa. If you get to know me, you will get to trust me. If I get to know you, I will trust you."
Forget about the rioting and violence and threats to national security. It is in the BBC handbook that being Muslim means never having to say you're sorry.
They need to be shackled!
Well, that's a start; but true alienation will occur only when they LEAVE. But, where else can they get a free ride? Bastards.
Religious relativism is not the answer. When calling an evil religion the same as a good one, obviously we know who benefits here.
Being muslim and French is an oxymoron. Islam is Islam with its provinces. France to a muslim, by their book, is a guest province of Islam, and not the other way around, as this piece by so called muslim moderates indicate a France having to accomodate.
Celebrate diversity.
Send them home.
Yep, the BBC needs to be reminded that France is not a confederacy with "muslim state charia and antiapostasy rights".
Those french are hypocritical and arrogant lot. I guess they never heard of Quebec.
Hmmmm. The Palestians have demanded the West Bank. The Islamofascists in Paris will be demanding the Left Bank.
Ghettos? In a Worker's Paradise? Can't be, I thought the United States was the only place with ghettos.
And then they bitch about being segregated into ghettos.
Whatever...
I love the tortured descriptions. It reminds me of one of my favorite passages from Huck Finn:
And so we went for the snakes, and grabbed a couple of dozen garters and house-snakes, and put them in a bag, and put it in our room, and by that time it was suppertime, and a rattling good honest day's work: and hungry? -- oh, no, I reckon not! And there warn't a blessed snake up there when we went back -- we didn't half tie the sack, and they worked out somehow, and left. But it didn't matter much, because they was still on the premises somewheres. So we judged we could get some of them again. No, there warn't no real scarcity of snakes about the house for a considerable spell. You'd see them dripping from the rafters and places every now and then; and they generly landed in your plate, or down the back of your neck, and most of the time where you didn't want them. Well, they was handsome and striped, and there warn't no harm in a million of them; but that never made no difference to Aunt Sally; she despised snakes, be the breed what they might, and she couldn't stand them no way you could fix it; and every time one of them flopped down on her, it didn't make no difference what she was doing, she would just lay that work down and light out. I never see such a woman. And you could hear her whoop to Jericho. You couldn't get her to take a-holt of one of them with the tongs. And if she turned over and found one in bed she would scramble out and lift a howl that you would think the house was afire. She disturbed the old man so that he said he could most wish there hadn't ever been no snakes created. Why, after every last snake had been gone clear out of the house for as much as a week Aunt Sally warn't over it yet; she warn't near over it; when she was setting thinking about something you could touch her on the back of her neck with a feather and she would jump right out of her stockings. It was very curious. But Tom said all women was just so. He said they was made that way for some reason or other.
"Hmmmm. The Palestians have demanded the West Bank. The Islamofascists in Paris will be demanding the Left Bank.
That's very clever - thanks
Stupid Muslims, nobody wants to live next to them and move, so now it's practicing segregation - Would you want to live next to a stinking suicidal diaperheaded Muslim? Of course not! Does not mean segregationist politics are at work, it means some of the French still have some common sense....
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