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To: Vicomte13

"Since Roe v. Wade in 1973, abortion has been particularly effective at reducing the ranks of the criminal underclass. "

huh??

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"As to standards of living being much higher than in France.
I disagree. I live and work in both places, and have family in both places. France and America are not much discernible in terms of wealth. One can see certain cultural features that are better in one place or the other, and certain economic features that are preferable in each nation. Which place has a higher "standard of living" is a very subjective factor anyway, decided by what one choses to use as a benchmark, and how one weights it."

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Just not so. I could post numerous studies and stats that unequivocally state the reverse.

Anecdotally I can show you the reverse as well. The idea that 10-15,000 died in France from lack of a/c is mindboggling to a society that sprays to prevent West Nile after 2 deaths, that is outraged that 1,000 died from the one of the worst hurricanes of the century, that has the best medical care in the world even for the poor.

Here is one anecdote:

"The differences between American and European material wealth are now marked and growing — Americans increasingly enjoy larger homes, more cars, more appliances, cheaper food and energy, more advanced health care, and more disposable income. A recent European visitor to my farm, a member of the professional and affluent class, was stunned when I showed him the new suburban houses and multiple cars of first generation immigrants from Mexico living nearby — in the poorest section of one of the poorest inland counties of rural California. “They seem wealthier than I am!” he exclaimed. In a global sense they really are, even without the subsidized train tickets, day care payments, and a government-guaranteed six-week vacation."

http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson092705.html

We have a larger middle class, higher home ownership, car ownership.

All but 4 of our poorest states are richer than France, Italy, Germany and UK.

http://www.timbro.com/euvsusa/

Check out this comparison http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_cap


98 posted on 11/03/2005 1:37:40 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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To: dervish

Statistics are all very interesting, but they do not often reflect the truth.

For example: GDP per capita. Divide the GDP by the population and you will find this number. What does it tell you about wealth distribution?
Nothing.

Perhaps of more significance, however, in telling about the quality of life are certain social indicators at the bottom of the scale. Well-to-do persons live well everywhere. But what about people at the bottom?

Material wealth is one measure. And the study seems to demonstrate that, when looking at the legal economy and citizens (I presume that American statistics do not include the 20 million illegal aliens residing in America, as their illegal status does not lend itself to data collection), that American poor have more "stuff".

But quality of life also includes things like health and longevity, and infant mortality, especially at the bottom.

Also, economic and physical security.

When one looks at the percentages of GDP accounted for by government, the US is, of course, much lower than France. But what percentage of the American economy, now, is the exploding cost of the health care industry? In the US, this is not all in the government cost bar, while in France it all is. Americans nevertheless have to spend that money to get the care, so that it is private or public expenditure does not change the basic nature of it.
Likewise pension funds. In France, this is the government. In the US, it is partially the government but also business, and businesses are buckling under the cost.

When I look at the two places, I see that Americans have more physical goods in general, indeed a surfeit of them, as demonstrated by almost universal obesity in the United States. I do not see that they generally live better lives. I see that things are comparable. The trade offs of living either place are obvious once one does it.


107 posted on 11/03/2005 3:10:48 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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