Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: dervish

Statistics are all very interesting, but they do not often reflect the truth.

For example: GDP per capita. Divide the GDP by the population and you will find this number. What does it tell you about wealth distribution?
Nothing.

Perhaps of more significance, however, in telling about the quality of life are certain social indicators at the bottom of the scale. Well-to-do persons live well everywhere. But what about people at the bottom?

Material wealth is one measure. And the study seems to demonstrate that, when looking at the legal economy and citizens (I presume that American statistics do not include the 20 million illegal aliens residing in America, as their illegal status does not lend itself to data collection), that American poor have more "stuff".

But quality of life also includes things like health and longevity, and infant mortality, especially at the bottom.

Also, economic and physical security.

When one looks at the percentages of GDP accounted for by government, the US is, of course, much lower than France. But what percentage of the American economy, now, is the exploding cost of the health care industry? In the US, this is not all in the government cost bar, while in France it all is. Americans nevertheless have to spend that money to get the care, so that it is private or public expenditure does not change the basic nature of it.
Likewise pension funds. In France, this is the government. In the US, it is partially the government but also business, and businesses are buckling under the cost.

When I look at the two places, I see that Americans have more physical goods in general, indeed a surfeit of them, as demonstrated by almost universal obesity in the United States. I do not see that they generally live better lives. I see that things are comparable. The trade offs of living either place are obvious once one does it.


107 posted on 11/03/2005 3:10:48 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies ]


To: Vicomte13
"In the US, this is not all in the government cost bar, while in France it all is. Americans nevertheless have to spend that money to get the care, so that it is private or public expenditure does not change the basic nature of it."

You are so wrong. The basic nature does depend on whether one has to deal with entrenched bureaucrats or with people who have to please their customers to keep their business. It is the difference between dealing with the Post Office and Fed Ex. You have Post Office health care and we have Fed Ex health care.
108 posted on 11/03/2005 3:48:28 PM PST by Ninian Dryhope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: Vicomte13

I do not see that they (Americans)generally live better lives.
_____________________________________________________

And by what criteria do you determine what a "better life" is?

Yours is a very subjective opinion to say the least. Wrong too.

Most Euros I know would be thrilled to have the opportunities we take for granted in the US.


109 posted on 11/03/2005 3:59:25 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: Vicomte13
"as demonstrated by almost universal obesity in the United States."

You undermine your own arguments by proving yourself a bald faced liar with the above statement.

"Which Groups of Adults Have the Highest Rate of Obesity?
Using the definition of obesity as a BMI of 30+, 26 percent of all adult women are obese, while 20.6 percent of adult men are obese.

Among women, obesity rates are higher among minority women.
39 percent of black women and 36.1 percent of Hispanic women are obese."

"In fact, France is suffering something of an obesity crisis, with rates here rising "at an alarming rate," particularly among young people, Bellisle said. True, absolute rates are still lower here than in the United States and most other European countries: 11.3 percent of the French are obese and nearly 40 percent overweight, compared with more than 50 percent overweight in Britain and the United States."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/03/news/obese.php
110 posted on 11/03/2005 3:59:38 PM PST by Ninian Dryhope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

To: Vicomte13

“Material wealth is one measure.”

By almost every measure the US is economically superior. Why do you think it is the destination of choice for immigrants including Europeans? Where does the ability to obtain meaningful work in your field fit in as a quality of life factor? I rate it high.

"But what percentage of the American economy, now, is the exploding cost of the health care industry?"

What price do you put on being alive? healthy? Quality costs. In the same post you laud health and berate spending on it.

The US is the destination of choice the world over for healthcare. US drug companies develop the drugs used the world over basically subsidizing the Europeans and Canada whose socialized systems pay less for US drugs than we do here. We develop most of them at our expense and then Europe buys them at bargain basement prices.

For that matter we subsidize Europe (and the world's) defense too.

“But quality of life also includes things like health and longevity, and infant mortality, especially at the bottom.


Also, economic and physical security.”

The best socialized medicine has to offer in Europe we consider below second rate.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006785

Well dying in a nursing home of heat does not suggest great respect for longevity. Go back to my West Nile example. Economic security? With US unemployment at slightly over 5%, and French unemployment at over 10%, Germany even higher, who has greater economic security? Physical security is not too great in France with rioting now. Nor was it too good before in the Muslim ‘no go’ zones. Jews did not find their physical security too great as anti-Semitic crimes increased to historic post WWll levels in many countries in Europe including France, UK, Belgium, Holland, Germany. In the US the right to bear arms provides physical security Europeans are deprived of.

“almost universal obesity in the United States”

Come now, are you deliberately trying to tick off Americans? In NYC women’s size 4 is hard to come by. It gets sold out first. I just got back from the gym. It was packed with a lot of muscular and fit looking people. In France I understand they may diet, but they don’t exercise.

The usual rationalization about the so called quality of life due to the shorter work hours and increased vacation in Europe fall flat when you are poor and can’t get work. It is a poor man’s consolation. More vacation? Many are on permanent vacation.

In the end the outstanding question is can Europe even maintain their current standard of living? I doubt it.

I recommend this book, Cowboy Capitalism: European Myths, American Reality
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930865627/qid=1123159427/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_sbs_1/102-9072403-2533700?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


117 posted on 11/03/2005 5:32:30 PM PST by dervish (no excuses)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson