Posted on 11/01/2005 11:29:35 AM PST by kedshouse
"Standard sources" don't have their trip expenses paid by the Agency.
And it DID matter if he was sent "by the Vice President" as he claimed (plenty of open sourcing on this issue showing Wilson lied) ....or not.
Being "sent by the Vice President" would open a few doors for him in Niger and give him an aura of authority in his dealings with the Nigeriens and the US Embassy in Niger...not to mention bolster Joe's importance to the Administration when he boasted about his Niger mission to journalists.
And make the Veep look like an idiot (Wilson's GOAL!!!).... for ostensibly sending a messenger to Niger and then ignoring his message.
This issue, I believe, was what got Scooter Libby involved and probably lathered up. "Who is this guy Wilson who is claiming he was sent to Niger by the Veep?"
Sources don't have to sign any type of non-disclosure and aren't prohibited from speaking. Basically they're being interviewed for their knowledge on something, contacts they had while overseas, conversations, etc.
They're not participating in operations, aren't employees, just people who have information. They're not under any obligation to not speak about their info or experiences.
Where Wilson hangs himself, though, is the Niger forgeries. How did he find out about them? Did he have security clearances to receive that information?
He now admits he didn't see them prior to his trip and didn't even mention them during his interview with the reports officer. But even if the agency knew about the forgeries before having them in hand, and that prompted the request from the VP's office (which I doubt), that's not information he would have been given before his trip.
Nobody is asking Wilson how he knew about the forgeries, whenever it was that he actually found out. I think people assume that he would have been given that info as part of his "mission", but you don't give sources classified info. You just interview them for what THEY know.
Pray for W and Our Troops
Cheney's office denies ever giving him this mission. This was purely a CIA op. That's what got Scooter going. WHY WOULD JOEY CLAIM CHENEY SENT HIM WHEN HE KNEW IT WAS NOT TRUE?
Do we know what expenses, if any, were paid by the agency?
It was definitely Wilson's goal to have this come back on Cheney, I agree. He wanted to make Cheney look like he knew the SOTU "16 words" were incorrect, that he lied to the public to go to war.
But he didn't say that Cheney sent him. He said that Cheney's office asked for the info and the CIA sent him. Various media morphed it into him saying Cheney sent him, which isn't helpful since it's so easily disproven.
Wilson didn't claim that Cheney sent him. He claimed that Cheney knew he debunked the Niger forgeries after he made the trip (which is a lie, of course). He said that Cheney HAD to know that he'd debunked the forgeries because Cheney's the one who asked the question of the CIA and, of course, would have been given an answer. He said that Cheney was lying about not knowing about his supposed debunking of the Niger papers.
This claim, not who sent him, is what is important--it goes to the heart of the political battle going on right now--was the public mislead before going to war.
Thank you for the very concise clarification. Bookmarked.
Joe has said his "travel expenses" were paid by the agency but his time was offered gratis. What a guy.
His wife said he had a "little business" to do over there anyway. Anyone wonder what "business" Joe does in Africa? Must be good, with Rolexes and Jaguars so obvious.
Having done a few of these official (really official, not pseudo) boondoggles myself (but not traveling in First Class), I'd still like to see the travel vouchers. Having been to Africa, which is a very expensive trip, I'd say Joe probably bill(k)ed the USG for $10,0000 or more by the time it was all said and done. The CIA must have quite a "slush fund" to pay for boondoggles with so little oversight and authority, not to mention zero results.
Joe tied himself to the administration by claiming the VP had questions (doubts, according to Joe) and he, Joe Wilson, was selected by the Agency as a "representative of the government" to go get answers....quite disingenuous and it Joe does therefore imply he was on some official mission directed by the VP. One can only imagine how loosely this association was used by Joe in the many gossip sessions Joe had with reporters about how "the Veep" sought his expertise....and then discarded it because it didn't fit the Veep's agenda to make the case for war.....
And this HAS become central to the case.
Good point. I have not read the Kristof piece nor have I followed this in the detail you have, but something smells here. There is an element in the CIA and the State Department that is more interested in self-interest than the security of the U.S. They are traitors IMO and need to be rooted out. Of course, the Democraps also fit the traitor bill also.
bttt
Wilson took two trips to Niger at the CIA's request. The 1st was in '99, and was in conjunction with supposed business he had there. He was recommended for this trip by his wife. I have never seen a report on this trip, so I assume it was confidential. This is in the senate report. He heard about the forged doc's from the CIA when he was briefed for his '02 trip. He, however could not have seen dates or signatures, because the doc's were still a rumor. While Wilson never said the VP sent him, the Kristoff article certainly leads one to think that. Sorry can't find the Kristoff article.
"Wilson didn't claim that Cheney sent him. He claimed that Cheney knew he debunked the Niger forgeries after he made the trip (which is a lie, of course). He said that Cheney HAD to know that he'd debunked the forgeries because Cheney's the one who asked the question of the CIA and, of course, would have been given an answer. He said that Cheney was lying about not knowing about his supposed debunking of the Niger papers."
Do you have a source for this? I find it fascinating because, as you say, Wilson never debunked these forged documents to anyone. And, Cheney apparently was never given a report from Wilson's trip. So Wilson is promoting a rather elaborate lie.
he did claim that the CIA "in response to a request from the VPs office" or words to that effect, is why he was sent on the trip. there have been some detailed threads on the wording he used - very careful wording.
this is a reprint of Wilson's op-ed that started the whole thing:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm
notice the careful wording here regarding the link to the VPs office, the impression he is trying to leave is clear, while allowing the words to be parsed otherwise:
"In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990's. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office."
To me, this looks like Cheney is being framed. He's being falsely accused of something that didn't happen. Knowledge is being attributed to him about the falsity of these documents, that he certainly couldn't have gotten from Wilson.
Thank you for the link.
Take care.
5.56mm
Here's the thing. Wilson has admitted to being the source of Kristof's article. So if he claimed to Kristof that he had debunked the forged documents, he was lying - knowing that Kristof would publish the story and the Vice President would get blamed for using false documents. It's a setup.
Wouldn't ot be a hoot if we found out that Hillary and Bubba were at their wedding. By the way, do Valerie and Joe have a Marriage Certificate. Does it say Valerie Plame? or Jane Bond? The name is not what it is about. It was just "useful" when Novak printed it.
well, then its time to fight back don't you think? expose the forged documents as being planted to discredit what was otherwise a true story - and find out if that is in any way connected to some rogue operation inside the CIA. in politics, you are either on offense, or you are losing.
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