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It's just amazing to me that these bozos on the Dover School Board, after being forced to admit over and over again that they perjured themselves repeatedly in depositions, are still accusing reporters of lying!
1 posted on 11/01/2005 8:17:36 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Junior; PatrickHenry
Ping for Dover, PA, a town, it appears, where Diogenes would have given up in disgust
2 posted on 11/01/2005 8:19:37 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

Good thing there's a fear of a higher power keeping these folks on the straight and narrow, eh? Err, waitaminute...


3 posted on 11/01/2005 8:21:09 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow (g_r)
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To: Right Wing Professor
The great Mike Argento weighs in on Of Pandas and Perjury.

In Dover suit, a day to sweat

MIKE ARGENTO
Tuesday, November 1, 2005

HARRISBURG — On the witness stand during Monday's session of the Dover Panda Trial, Dover Area School Board member Alan Bonsell accused the press of just making things up.

Keeping that in mind, here's a description of what happened Monday afternoon.

Wearing a nice gray suit, Bonsell answered every question to the best of his ability and was positively forthcoming and when the lawyers pointed out certain inconsistencies in his testimony, he thanked them profusely and offered expansive explanations for why he may have been misunderstood and cleared up any misunderstandings that may have arisen.

OK, all of that was made up.

Except for the part about Bonsell wearing a gray suit.

Actually, at the conclusion of his testimony, he was in serious danger of ruining that suit.

That was when the judge started asking him to try to explain — um, how should I phrase this? — certain gaps and problems with his testimony.

It was remarkable. Judge John E. Jones III asked for a copy of Bonsell's deposition and started asking him questions about why he felt the need to cover up where the money came from to buy the 60 copies of "Of Pandas and People" that wound up in the Dover high school library.

Bonsell didn't explain very well.

At one point, he replied to the judge's query with, "I misspoke."

"I misspoke" wasn't working. So he tried to layer on some verbiage — at one point, seemingly, speaking random words that had nothing to do with what the judge was asking — to give the impression that he was merely trying to answer the question.

When, in fact, he was merely trying to avoid answering the question.

The more he talked, the worse it got.

By the conclusion, it was clear to everyone in the courtroom that the judge was pointing out that Bonsell might have lied under oath.

That's a problem.

Ask Scooter Libby.

Or Bill Clinton.

Bonsell wasn't being asked about who outed a CIA agent or whether he had had sex with that woman. He wasn't even being asked about a crime — the judge was asking about who bought the copies of "Of Pandas and People" that were donated to the school.

And Bonsell really didn't want to say.

In fairness, Bonsell wasn't very believable even before the judge started laying into him. He said, "I have never brought anything forward to put creationism in the school district in any shape or form" — despite notes from board retreats and other testimony describing him bringing up creationism.

I was expecting him to say, "I did not have sex with that panda."

And so the Dover Panda Trial took an interesting turn. Certainly, the big issues — mostly notably, separation of church and state — remain. But now, members of the Dover Area School Board may have to worry about those aforementioned gaps and problems in their testimony.

Of course, the defendants are going to turn this around and blame those darned liberal activist judges. It doesn't work. For one thing, Jones was appointed to the federal bench by George W. Bush, not known for appointing liberals. And, you know, insisting that witnesses tell the truth in court isn't exclusively a liberal proposition.

On the one hand, school board members can use this to defend against the charge that they were motivated by religious belief in introducing intelligent design or creationism into the biology curriculum. If they were motivated by religion, how come none of them ever heard of the Ninth Commandment — you know, the one about bearing false witness?

On the other hand, it's really a sad day for America when public officials can no longer lie convincingly enough to get it past a federal judge.

4 posted on 11/01/2005 8:25:39 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

"Why, of course I didn't lie, your Honor. I misspoke. That's different from lying. What? Did I know what I said in the deposition was wrong? I misspoke. Didn't you hear me?

Of course I knew it was wrong. That's because I misspoke. My attorney tells me that lying is one thing; mispeaking is another. So I misspoke. I didn't lie.

What? Well, no, what I said in the deposition wasn't true, but it wasn't a lie, either. I just said I misspoke. What part of that did you not understand. If I had lied, I would have said I lied. I deliberately misspoke so I couldn't be accused of lying. So help me, God!


12 posted on 11/01/2005 8:53:07 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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The CrevoSci Archive
Just one of the many services of Darwin Central
"The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

  1. 2005-11-01 Contract dispute ignites Dover race
  2. 2005-11-01 Judge grills Dover official [Dover trial 11/1/05]
  3. 2005-10-31 Scientists and engineers apply nature's design to human problems (Man borrows from God's DESIGN)
  4. 2005-10-31 Kansas Fight on Evolution Escalates (Teachers groups punish Kansas school)
  5. 2005-10-30 A Critique of Douglas Theobald’s “29 Evidences for Macroevolution”
  6. 2005-10-30 Meru Foundation eTORUS(tm) Newsletter #30 (Intelligent Design: Don't be taken in)
  7. 2005-10-29 Groups Balk at Teaching Intelligent Design
  8. 2005-10-28 Scientists discover dyslexia gene
  9. 2005-10-28 Buckingham seesaws on the stand [Dover trial 10/28/05]
  10. 2005-10-28 The Worst Jobs in Science No.3- Kansas Biology Teacher
  11. 2005-10-28 Is US becoming hostile to science?
  12. 2005-10-27 Sex-Selection by Embryo Screening Approved for US Trial
  13. 2005-10-27 Bone marrow stem cells may heal hearts even years after heart attacks
  14. 2005-10-27 How Miers and Dover Intersect: 'Science' determines 'Law'
  15. 2005-10-27 Jumping wallaby genes and post-Flood speciation (Evidence supports Biblical model)
  16. 2005-10-27 Generosity Is No Monkey Business, Study
  17. 2005-10-27 Genetic Catalog May Aid Search for Roots of Disease
  18. 2005-10-27 Former school board member `misspoke' in advocating creationism
  19. 2005-10-26 Discovery Institute and Thomas More Law Center Squabble in AEI Forum
  20. 2005-10-26 Poll – Americans See More Promise in Stem Cells Not Derived From Embryos

CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of November:
 

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2001-11-30 claptrap
2001-11-16 CobaltBlue
2002-11-21 DannyTN
2004-11-16 DaveLoneRanger
1997-11-30 Ditto
2001-11-16
dmz
2000-11-11 Ernest_at_the_Beach
2000-11-02 Exit 109
2000-11-12 ForGod'sSake
2001-11-07 FourtySeven
2000-11-10 Godel
2004-11-06 GreenOgre
2000-11-04 harbinger of doom
2000-11-28 HiTech RedNeck
1999-11-05 Ichneumon
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1998-11-25 Junior_G
2002-11-17 Just mythoughts
2004-11-11
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2000-11-06 mrjeff
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2003-11-17 Nathan Zachary
2002-11-12 NCLaw441
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2000-11-10 Patriotic Teen
1998-11-01
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2000-11-30 Right Wing Professor
2004-11-18 rightwinggoth
1998-11-15 rob777
1998-11-04 RobRoy
1999-11-16 TerP26
2000-11-04 TigerTale
2004-11-11 untrained skeptic
2000-11-05 will of the people
2003-11-29
woodb01

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15 posted on 11/01/2005 9:02:48 AM PST by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Is he the pro from Dover?


16 posted on 11/01/2005 9:03:24 AM PST by ABG(anybody but Gore) (This tagline is under remodeling, thank you for your patience...)
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To: Right Wing Professor
It's just amazing to me that these bozos on the Dover School Board, after being forced to admit over and over again that they perjured themselves repeatedly in depositions, are still accusing reporters of lying!

Funny how they behave just the YEC serial misstaters on FreeRepublic!

17 posted on 11/01/2005 9:19:42 AM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Well, if we didn't before, we now know why the Discovery Institute wanted to stay clear of this case. It's a loser.

They tried to do an end run around the Constitution, and when caught, they lied and lied and lied. Badly. You'd think with all the practice, they'd be better at it.

Okay, ID supporters. Here's your opportunity - time to denounce those on your side who lie to further the cause. Do you support this stealth-agenda approach, and do you support lying about it on the stand?


19 posted on 11/01/2005 9:23:03 AM PST by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Right Wing Professor; All
...say board members were motivated by religious beliefs, one of the prongs used by the courts to determine whether an action violates the constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.

Do you believe the U.S. Constitution prevents these people from using their religious belief in attempting to influence public policy?

If so, please use the Constition and your own words to prove these people do not have the right to attempt to influence public policy based on their religious beliefs.

If you answer no to my question, then who's the bigger liars?

23 posted on 11/01/2005 9:52:46 AM PST by Diplomat (Give me a real Conservative on the Supreme Court, or give me Republican party death!)
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To: Right Wing Professor
I don't think Intelligent Design will go away because of reticule. Life is found to be more complex than less every year it is examined. Thus those arguing against Intelligent Design and the obvious complexity will find it harder and harder to maintain the facade that chance created everything. The overwhelming evidence of complexity will overwhelm evolution IMHO probably at the molecular level. It is only a matter of time.

As far as trying to use religion to reticule intelligent design, it is only a feeble attempt to plug the leak in a crumbling sea wall dam.

30 posted on 11/01/2005 10:15:25 AM PST by sr4402
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To: Right Wing Professor
"You knew you were under oath?" Jones asked at one point.

I smell perjury/obstruction charges against this mendacious witness, if not an additional conspiracy to obstruct charge against the whole lot of them.

These people have have neither scientific understanding nor sense of personal integrity, and this trial is documenting both flaws in their characters. I would not be surprised if the lot of them end up in jail for this.

31 posted on 11/01/2005 10:19:01 AM PST by longshadow
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To: Right Wing Professor

Judge Grills Dover Souls?


33 posted on 11/01/2005 10:21:07 AM PST by SuzyQue
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To: Right Wing Professor

Looks like a little mistate'n goin on.


34 posted on 11/01/2005 10:21:09 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Thanks for the post. :-)


41 posted on 11/01/2005 10:28:08 AM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive, but maybe it's excusable because we're addicted to OxyContin.

(With apologies to Sir Walter Scott.)

98 posted on 11/01/2005 11:52:35 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Things are really unraveling for this particular gang that couldn't lie straight.
138 posted on 11/01/2005 12:46:59 PM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
Judge grills Dover official

Well done.

192 posted on 11/01/2005 1:51:32 PM PST by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Some people won't grasp reality until they stand before Jesus Christ Himself, after it's too late, and with NO REDEMPTION CERTIFICATE signed in Jesus' blood to offset their sin-filled lives.


337 posted on 11/01/2005 7:09:04 PM PST by Whitewasher (Would u like America to be a goat nation in the millennium to come? Keep pushing the "Roadmap" bull!)
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