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So here we have a self-professed Christian conservative, the head of the creationist school board currently being sued at Dover for trying to sneak creationism into the public school system, committing perjury multiple times on the stand and then blaming it on his drug addiction

This must be some definition of 'conservative' I'm not familiar with.

1 posted on 10/28/2005 7:08:16 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor; Junior; PatrickHenry

Which of you guys has the ping list? This is a must-read column!


2 posted on 10/28/2005 7:08:58 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

Seems ironic to have a really really really stupid person promoting intelligent design.


3 posted on 10/28/2005 7:16:12 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: Right Wing Professor
All I can say is "WOW!"

This simply substantiates many of my previous rants about how creationists/IDer's tend to lie, I mean misspeak, about creationsism, ID and science in general. Based on testimony and evidence in this trial, ID is an attempt to inject religion into science classes and the attempts to cover it up are miserable failures.

5 posted on 10/28/2005 7:20:34 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Right Wing Professor

How sad! Poor guy. Of course, he should never have been elected to the school board, but that's how school board elections go. We rarely know much about the candidates.

Perhaps this will change in Dover at the upcoming election. Perhaps the community will do better.

Perhaps this gentleman will learn his own limitations, as well.


7 posted on 10/28/2005 7:27:17 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Right Wing Professor; Junior

I think the only one who's going to come out of this looking better than when it all started may be Mike Argento. Wouldn't surprise me if he parlayed this exposure into a much bigger gig than the York Daily Record, and deservedly so.


10 posted on 10/28/2005 7:35:44 AM PDT by Senator Bedfellow (g_r)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Nice post. :-) WOWOWOWOW!


12 posted on 10/28/2005 7:39:08 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: Right Wing Professor

But those on the other side probably think he did well...


22 posted on 10/28/2005 8:01:47 AM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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The CrevoSci Archive
Just one of the many services of Darwin Central
"The Conspiracy that Cares"

CrevoSci threads for the past week:

  1. 2005-10-28 Buckingham seesaws on the stand [Dover trial 10/28/05]
  2. 2005-10-27 Former school board member `misspoke' in advocating creationism
  3. 2005-10-26 Discovery Institute and Thomas More Law Center Squabble in AEI Forum
  4. 2005-10-25 Witness: intelligent design needs boost [affirmative action for creationism]
  5. 2005-10-25 On Human Diversity: Why has the genetics community discarded so many phenotypes?
  6. 2005-10-25 Plants redesigned to live in outer space
  7. 2005-10-25 Y Chromosomes Reveal Founding Father (Giocangga)
  8. 2005-10-24 The Spectre of Difference
  9. 2005-10-24 "'Intelligent design' supporters gather (700 Scientists agree ID is ""step beyond Darwin"")"
  10. 2005-10-24 How Tunas and Lamnid Sharks Swim: An Evolutionary Convergence
  11. 2005-10-24 The Science Community's Myopia over Intelligent Design
  12. 2005-10-24 Poll: Majority Reject Evolution
  13. 2005-10-24 When a worldview competes with religion (Darwinsim is a 'secular religion')
  14. 2005-10-24 Yawning
  15. 2005-10-23 Efficient Human to Human Transmission Via H5N1 / H9N2 Recombination
  16. 2005-10-23 Majority of Americans Reject Secular Evolution (Gallup Poll, Sep. 2005)
  17. 2005-10-23 Media stand on sidelines behind cloak of fairness-Far right politicians give Christians a bad name
  18. 2005-10-23 Happy 6009th Birthday, All of Creation
  19. 2005-10-23 The Greatest Beer Commercial Ever (HUMOR FOR THE CREVOS!)
  20. 2005-10-23 Americans Review Evolution, Creationism
  21. 2005-10-22 Evolution Shmevolution
  22. 2005-10-22 "Intelligent design debate: confusion vs. suppression -""scholars"" worry ID creates U.S. science gap"
  23. 2005-10-22 Nonprofit group criticizes proposed Kansas science standards [that attack evolution]

CrevoSci Warrior Freepdays for the month of October:
 

2005-10-12 Alice au Wonderland
2003-10-09 antiRepublicrat
2004-10-10 Antonello
1998-10-18 AZLiberty
1999-10-14 blam
2000-10-19 cogitator
2001-10-21 Coyoteman
2004-10-26 curiosity
1998-10-29 Dataman
2000-10-29 dila813
2005-10-07 Dinobot
2004-10-13 DoctorRansom
2001-10-14 dread78645
2000-10-13 drlevy88
2005-10-14 EasyBOven
1998-10-03 Elsie
1998-10-17 f.Christian
2002-10-08 FairOpinion
2001-10-26 Genesis defender
2000-10-09 Gil4
2000-10-08 guitarist
2005-10-01 holeinchilada
2004-10-10 joeclarke
1998-10-03 js1138
2001-10-24 k2blader
2001-10-22 kanawa
2000-10-08 LibWhacker
2002-10-25 m1-lightning
2001-10-10 Michael_Michaelangelo
2001-10-09 Mother Abigail
2004-10-25 MRMEAN
2004-10-03 Nicholas Conradin
1999-10-28 PatrickHenry
1998-10-01 Physicist
2003-10-19 Pipeline
1998-10-25 plain talk
1998-10-12 Restorer
2005-10-04 ret_medic
2001-10-23 RightWingNilla
2005-10-08 SmoothTalker
2004-10-09 snarks_when_bored
1998-10-04 Southack
2004-10-16 StoneGiant
2002-10-22 sumocide
2004-10-05 Termite_Commander
2004-10-21 WildHorseCrash
2001-10-23 yankeedame
2002-10-20 Z in Oregon
1998-10-29 zebra 2

In Memoriam
Fallen CrevoSci Warriors:


ALS
Area Freeper
Aric2000
Askel5
biblewonk
bluepistolero
churchillbuff
ConservababeJen
DittoJed2
dob
Ed Current
f.Christian
followerofchrist
general_re
goodseedhomeschool
gopwinsin04
gore3000
Jedigirl
JesseShurun
Kevin Curry
kharaku
Le-Roy
Marathon
medved
metacognative
Modernman
NoKinToMonkeys
Ogmios
peg the prophet
Phaedrus
Phoroneus
pickemuphere
ret_medic
RickyJ
SeaLion
Selkie
Shubi
Tomax
tpaine
WaveThatFlag
xm177e2

Bring back Modernman and SeaLion!

Glossary of Terms

CrevoCreation vs. evolution
CrevoSciCreation vs. evolution/Science
CrevoSci Warriors:  Those who take part on CrevoSci threads
Freepday:  The day a Freeper joined Free Republic


The
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26 posted on 10/28/2005 8:18:31 AM PDT by Junior (From now on, I'll stick to science, and leave the hunting alien mutants to the experts!)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Darn it - you almost owe me a new keyboard for that. Reading the article I had to choose whether to choke and die on the coke I was drinking, or spit it out on the keyboard to free the airways for laughter. Mike Argento is just hilarious :)


27 posted on 10/28/2005 8:21:11 AM PDT by anguish (while science catches up.... mysticism!)
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To: Right Wing Professor
And then, he attributed his spotty, selective and just plain weird memory to his OxyContin addiction.

To paraphrase the 12 yr old AOLer...OMG! WTF? LOL!!

31 posted on 10/28/2005 8:34:17 AM PDT by RightWingNilla
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To: Right Wing Professor
This is getting incredibly entertaining, but it's almost going too far. This attempt to inject religious instruction into a public school was so brazen and inept that it may not serve as a general precedent against the teaching of intelligent design.

The court will decide for the plaintiffs, not because of intelligent design per se, but because of the revival tents and venomous snakes that came along with it.

34 posted on 10/28/2005 9:03:44 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Right Wing Professor

OK. Larry has been presented. When do we get to see Moe and Curly Joe?

This sounds like a set up by DI to make sure ID doesn't get taught in school until they can 'refine' their program.

Sorry, actually it sounds like a set up by the keystone cops.

Sorry again. The DI is run by keystone cops.


36 posted on 10/28/2005 9:24:12 AM PDT by b_sharp (Tagline? What tagline?)
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To: Right Wing Professor

I think our celebration is premature. Based on this testimony, and other testimony to come, the judge can issue a very narrow ruling that the Dover school board intended to promote creationism. He does not have to mention ID in his ruling at all. I'm betting on this.


39 posted on 10/28/2005 9:33:41 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Right Wing Professor

I think it's a good thing this witness will never have to go up against a prosecutor like Fitzpatrick. He would be looking at 400 consecutive life sentences.


41 posted on 10/28/2005 9:39:10 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
So the lawyer asked him whether he got in front of the congregation and asked for donations. "I didn't," Buckingham said. He paused. "I'm sorry, I did say that, but there was more to it," he said. Anyway, he collected the money — wherever it came from — and then he wrote a check for $850 to Donald Bonsell, father of then-school board President Alan Bonsell. But previously, when asked by the lawyer about who donated the books, he said he didn't know. "Mr. Buckingham, you lied to me at your deposition ... isn't that true?" Harvey asked. "How so?" Buckingham responded. It went on for a while before Judge John E. Jones III told Harvey to move on.

There are no creationist liars. Only creationist misspeakers.

52 posted on 10/28/2005 10:26:51 AM PDT by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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To: Right Wing Professor

This liar is lying because he's scared he'll go to hell if he doesn't lie to promote a religion that says he'll go to hell for lying.


58 posted on 10/28/2005 11:18:15 AM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: Right Wing Professor
From the blog which must not be named.

Deer in the headlights

Today the Kitzmiller trial featured the much-anticipated testimony of former school board member William Buckingham, a figure of controversy because of the religious statements attributed to him in the local press (which he has denied).

After the June 7 and June 14, 2004 board meetings, the York Daily Record and York Dispatch reported that Buckingham said that he wanted "creationism" taught as an alternative to the theory of evolution. The papers reported that he was worried because the textbook proposed by science faculty was "laced with Darwinism" and that he wanted a book with a balance "between creationism and evolution." His concern: "If you teach evolution over and over again, the students will believe it is fact." He was said to have challenged a member of the public "to trace your roots to the monkey you came from."

Buckingham was also quoted as claiming that "separation of church and state is mythic" and that it wasn't necessary to teach Hindu, Muslim or other religious beliefs alongside creationism because "This country wasn't founded on Muslim beliefs or evolution. It was founded on Christianity."

Then, there was the famous quote: "2000 years ago someone died on a cross for us; shouldn't we have the courage to stand up for him?"

Buckingham said that he never read any of the articles published about the Board meetings (although both papers were delivered to his house every day) and that for the most part he wasn't told what was being reported. He testified that he hadn't reviewed the news articles to prepare for trial because he didn't "give a darn thing about what they print."

When asked to read the news articles, Buckingham testified that the reporters for the Daily Record and the Dispatch got most things right, but that they "made up" his use of the word "creationism." He also said that some statements - including "2000 years ago..." and "...founded on Christianity" -- were things he had said in late 2003, after a Board debate over requiring students to say the Pledge of Allegiance that focused on the words "under God" in the pledge.

[Gratuitous side comment: The courts have held unequivocally that the First Amendment forbids a school from requiring a student to recite the pledge.]

Buckingham said he believed that the reporters simply substituted the word "creationism" every time a Board member said "intelligent design." He stated emphatically that neither he nor any other School Board member ever used the word "creationism" during any School Board meeting, Curriculum Committee meeting, private discussion or to the press.

Then Steve Harvey of Pepper Hamilton LLP played for Buckingham a segment aired by Fox News in the summer of 2004. All around the courtroom, Buckingham's face appeared on monitors and screens, saying, "It's OK to teach Darwinism, but you have to balance it with something else, such as creationism."

Buckingham said he'd forgotten about that interview. He characterized the interview by the Fox News reporters as an "ambush" and said he'd felt like a "deer in the headlights." He then explained that he had been so concerned about all the news reports that used the word "creationism" - the same reports he'd said that he never read, wasn't told about and didn't "give a darn thing about" - that he was concentrating really hard on not using that word and it just slipped out. "I made a mistake," he said.

At his first deposition, Buckingham had testified that he "absolutely" voted to purchase Biology in time for the beginning of classes in the Fall of 2004. Yesterday, Buckingham conceded that he had voted against buying the biology textbook to try to force the Board to purchase Pandas as a companion text. He agreed with the news report that he had said, "If he didn't get his book, then the District would not get its book."

Buckingham testified that he learned about Pandas from Richard Thompson of the Thomas More Law Center, when seeking a textbook that offered an alternative to evolution. In proposing the curriculum change, Buckingham sought only legal advice, never any educational or scientific advice. Nor did he consult the Curriculum Advisory Committee, which is made up of Dover Area residents, because he was new to the Board and didn't realize that was Board policy.

Finally, Mr. Harvey asked Buckingham about the School Distric's acquisition of dozens of copies of Pandas. Buckingham testified that members of his church had donated money for the purchase of the books, and that he written a check to Donald Bonsell, father of the President of the School Board Alan Bonsell [who will be testifying next week]. He stated that he didn't share that information when a member of the public asked how the district got Pandas because he "didn't think it was relevant."

Mr. Harvey then asked Buckingham to read from his deposition. Mr. Harvey had asked where the books came from and Buckingham had responded that he did not know who had donated the books, but that he had "deduced" there might be a tie to Alan Bonsell just because Bonsell was Board President. In the same deposition Buckingham said he did not ask where the books came from "because I didn't want to know."

"Didn't you lie to me?" asked Mr. Harvey. Buckingham responded that his deposition answer was truthful because he didn't know the names of the church members who had made cash donations for the purchase of the books.

Then, came the reporter...

Immediately after Buckingham's testimony, Heidi Bernhard-Bubb, the author of the York Dispatch articles that Buckingham claimed were inaccurate, testified. ACLU Legal Director Vic Walczak walked Ms. Bernhard-Bubb through each of the eight articles and she confirmed that her quotes were correct. In particular, she confirmed that she heard Buckingham and other Board members say they wanted to add "creationism" to the biology curriculum at June 7, 2004 Board meeting and heard Buckingham use that word again at the June 14 Board meeting. She testified that the phrase "intelligent design" was not mentioned until the August 2, 2004 Board meeting - which is why it did not appear in any of her articles until August. She also confirmed that she heard Buckingham make the other statements she attributed to him.

Ms. Bernhard-Bubb will be cross examined tomorrow.

submitted by Mary Catherine Roper, Staff Attorney, ACLU of PA

61 posted on 10/28/2005 11:59:11 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

Bill Buckingham is the school board member who recommended the "Icons of Evolution" video. This video is based on the book written by Jonathan Wells, a member of the Unification Church, aka Moonies.


73 posted on 10/28/2005 1:46:32 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Right Wing Professor

Wow. An entire thread which up to this point has not had one CS/ID promoter post to it. In my short experience, I've never seen this before.


75 posted on 10/28/2005 3:58:24 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Right Wing Professor

Taqqiya generally fails in a courtroom situation. (Even in Islamic countries.)


92 posted on 10/28/2005 7:49:11 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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