Posted on 10/26/2005 3:54:15 PM PDT by Jo Nuvark
Could we stop some of the abuse from illegal aliens by converting from an income tax that illegals avoid, to a federal sales tax that illegals cannot avoid?
Many illegals from Mexico pay no taxes and send much of their income home. A federal sales tax could discourage the abuses and possibly stem the human flood.
"That's thanks to the "tax the rich" rhetoric which led to having to prove one's self a compassionate conservative by almost eliminating taxes on low earners.
This gives the illegal workers a raise! They still work "on the books" in most positions, with fake ss#'s, which means that they get a lower withholding."
Scumbag employers who hire illegals rarely pay taxes (SS/ FICA)
Most all illegals in my neck of the woods work off the books.
[...Suddenly you're paying a 25% tax on a product, and there's no way to fight it. Where do you start? The tax on the paint? The tax on cardboard? There are soon so many (tax)strings attached to the product there's no way to unravel them...]
Can you give an historical example other than existing surcharges and tarrifs?
Yes I have. It costs about $30 from a US bank.
" Illegals don’t come to the US to avoid taxes. They come to get jobs here because there are none at home in Mexico."
True, but most of the illegals hired as day workers are hired off the books. Go to any building site in my state and 75% of the labor are illegals off the books.
There are still a few legit bueinesss owners out there but they're slowly being forced to hire illegals to "remain competitive" (stay in busines).
Wouldn't work. Taxes will not do it. What would work is draconian but would definitely work.
1. Stop the wiring home of money from the USA to Mexico.
2. Prohibit children of illegals from getting a free education.
3. Stop giving babies of illegals citizenship.
4. Establish citizenship and residency requirements for receipt of all federal benefits such as social security, Medicare and Medicaid, neonatal care, etc.
5. Pass federal legislation requiring all state and local peace officers, plus other state and local goverment officials, requiring them to inquire of legal status when they encounter someone; also provide the funding to detain and incarcerate those illegals detected this way.
6. Pass federal legislation requiring (5) for hospitals and schools, otherwise the institutions receive no federal funding or subsidy.
7. Pass legislation that requires incarceration and significant fines for breaking immigration laws, but include liberal rules for suspending them for the first infraction. E.g., 30 days plus $1,000 for the first offense. For subsequent offenses, the penalty becomes punitive, e.g., 6 months and $10,000. So the second time the feds start seizing cars and attaching funds in bank accounts.
This would stop illegals. You don't need to hunt them down. When they emerge, they will eventually be detected. And everything is done humanely and with human dignity.
Nothing is perfect, including our current system. Most sales tax scenarios give rebates to low income people (I assume reporting/SS& medicare witholding to still be done).
If Joe Blow US citizen and Juan the illegal both buy a flat screen tv, both will pay fed sales tax. Joe Blow, who works on the books will get his rebate for being poor. Kinda like the earned income credit. If you're not working on the books, you can't get it.
RE: Post #33
This seems to be a good line of thinking. To the point and unemcumbered. Too easy for bureaucrats.
"No change in the structure of the tax system can offset the cost of illegal immigration."
Quite true. The cost of illegal immigration is $40,000 per person, per year. There is just no way a 15% or 18% tax on some merchandise can make up for that $40,000 per person per year.
There's is also the "critical mass" factor which would figure into haggling the percentage. Whatever the market would bear.
Do you realize that those billions do not remain in our economy? It goes straight out.
It's a start. LA county alone spends $300M a year on ER care for illegals. Just one county, one kind of care.
[...most of the illegals hired as day workers are hired off the books...]
And now illegals can sue for worker's compensation. Another discouragement to employers NOT to hire illegals. Perhaps part of the problem is fixing itself.
"...the politicians like to nibble at every step a product makes..."
You got that right. I just learned today that regulatory cost for the oil industry to have a licensable engine oil is $30 million a year. The socialists are licensing engine oil for Pete sakes.
[...What would work is draconian but would definitely work...]
These ideas are great. If you aren't running for senate or congress on these planks, share with with a representative who will.
Now you're talking!
"...Illegals here for reasons other than work are a whole other story..."
Sure. Some have come here to build a great nation. They think they're George Washington. Unfortunately, they're about 200 years too late.
uh-oh. I'm afraid there's a nasty cloud on your silver lining.
Illegals can also sue to get on SS disability.
[...uh-oh. I'm afraid there's a nasty cloud on your silver lining. Illegals can also sue to get on SS disability...]
Are you TRYING to ruin my day? Rain on my parade... fine.
No wait... If they pay some taxes (any taxes), they can have their stinkin' SS disability.
[...Some have come here to build a great nation. They think they're George Washington. Unfortunately, they're about 200 years too late...]
Oh... this breaks my heart. In the back of my Pollyanna mind, I hope it is NOT too late. Oh, Father in Heaven, let it not be too late.
A sales tax is a percentage of GDP paid by the buyer. An income tax is a percentage of GDP paid by the seller.
Gosh - that's not the only similarity! There's more! Both are paid in dollars! Can you believe it? And what's really weird is that they are both intended to fund government! Wow! Who'd a thunk so much would be alike between an income tax and a sales tax?!
Seriesly, there are many similarities that are of no consequence - like the ones we've listed.
The difference to be recognized is the difference in how an income tax treats an illegal versus the way a sales tax would.
Juan will be buying his flat screen off the back of a truck, a piece that was lost in shipment, or perhaps from a business that was only open for a few hours - long enough to get the required resale certificate.
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