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Conservative Crackup; How the neocons have developed a political exit strategy
newsweek ^
| Oct 22 05
| Howard Fineman
Posted on 10/25/2005 9:12:26 PM PDT by churchillbuff
President George W. Bush may have no military exit strategy for Iraq, but the neocons who convinced him to go to war there have developed one of their owna political one: Blame the Administration. Their neo-Wilsonian theory is correct, they insist, but the execution was botched by a Bush team that has turned out to be incompetent, crony-filled, corrupt, unimaginative and weak over a wide range of issues.
The flight of the neoconsjust read a recent Weekly Standard to see what I am talking about is one of only many indications that the long-predicted conservative crackup is at hand.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: bushhatred; fineman; meirs; neocons; recyclednews; wardisatitagain
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To: Howlin; churchillbuff
61
posted on
10/25/2005 10:26:04 PM PDT
by
I8NY
To: Time4Atlas2Shrug
Sleep tight...and when u wake up looking for my ping..please give me a link to this CBS article...I can hardly wait to read what Mary Mapes had to say way back then (rolling eyes)...LOL
Frankly..to the Scarlets..I don't give a dammn! The enemy of our enemy is our friend until it is time to take them out. Sounds like good foreign policy to me. Hell, it won the whole COLD WAR and defeated COMMUNIST EXPANSION!!
If u want to second guess this country's every move and wring your hands at every defining moment that has defeated our enemies..go ahead. I will go down saying SEMPER FI..KICK ASS!!
To: I8NY
63
posted on
10/25/2005 10:32:28 PM PDT
by
Howlin
To: penelopesire
Please take a breath. In my earlier post I never criticized the fact that we sold them anything. I merely stated it. I haven't second guessed the strategy.
Like I said, if you can find something that contradicts what I gave you, please link it. I have no desire to argue it, nor do I need a particular conclusion. It is just what I have consistently read.
That being said, I feel no need to defend my position when we seem to be in agreement on the most important points.
I gave you the date and website so you should have no trouble finding the story.
64
posted on
10/25/2005 10:36:59 PM PDT
by
Time4Atlas2Shrug
(Use them bootstraps, cowboy.)
To: Peach
LOL... Give em hell peach!! U r one of the best of the best Freepers!!
To: churchillbuff
Howard Fineman?
LOLOLOLOL
66
posted on
10/25/2005 10:40:21 PM PDT
by
Petronski
(The name "cyborg" to me means complete love and incredible fun. I'm filled with joy.)
To: Time4Atlas2Shrug
OK..fair enough. I do fly off the handle at times...lol.
However, I am pretty busy and will not go lookin for ur link unless u provide it or I perceive u r the enemy..lol
Since we are on the same page (especially an honor for things AYN RAND)..u get a pass by virtue of ur 'name' and my lazy nature tonight...lol.
To: Peach
After the pummella-pummella-pummella you delivered, I see Neville's gone back to her pathetic hidey-hole.
Much like Saddam Hussein himself.
LOL
68
posted on
10/25/2005 10:46:08 PM PDT
by
Petronski
(The name "cyborg" to me means complete love and incredible fun. I'm filled with joy.)
To: churchillbuff
Hey, has anyone ever seen Zinn or Fineman the same AO? Just wonderin' and "puttin' it out there."
69
posted on
10/25/2005 11:09:42 PM PDT
by
Treader
(Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
To: churchillbuff
You mean that mess where that madman, terrorist-supporting, mass murderer Saddam Hussein was deposed and Iraq is the first Islamic Arab country to have a democracy? Oh yeah, that "mess".
70
posted on
10/26/2005 2:35:17 AM PDT
by
driftless
( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
To: lawnguy
"article complete crap". Ditto. It would be astonishing news to arch-war supporter Fred Barnes that the WS is opposed to the war. Fineman is dreaming.
71
posted on
10/26/2005 2:38:11 AM PDT
by
driftless
( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
To: churchillbuff
There a threats and there are immediate threats. The ex-Soviet Union was a long-range threat which we why allied with them in WWII to defeat the immediate threats Germany and Japan. To say that Hussein was absolutely no threat to us is naive. Legitimate positions can be made for not going to war, but to say that nothing Hussein did was not a threat to us in any way is not a position that can be defended. Remember Hussein tried to have a president of the U.S murdered. That by itself (there's a host of other reasons, mostly his support of Islamo-terrorism ) was grounds for ousting him.
72
posted on
10/26/2005 2:45:46 AM PDT
by
driftless
( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
To: Time4Atlas2Shrug
(we sold them to him)Check your premises there, sir.
73
posted on
10/26/2005 3:22:58 AM PDT
by
metesky
(This land was your land, this land is MY land; I bought the rights from a town selectman!)
To: churchillbuff
I saw the word 'neo-con' and the first thing I thought was, "churchillbuff?"
And surprise, surprise, I was right!
74
posted on
10/26/2005 3:26:43 AM PDT
by
airborne
(Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
To: Petronski
LOL. Saddam's hidey hole. Hah!
75
posted on
10/26/2005 4:58:17 AM PDT
by
Peach
(I believe Congressman Weldon.)
To: churchillbuff
5 words..."IRAQ LIBERATION ACT OF 1998"
To: churchillbuff
With the fall of Communism in Europe and Russia, the old anti-Communist wing of the conservative movement lost its role.
That is no longer true, as Islamofascism is now emerging as totalitarian threat. A large number of conservatives who support the WOT are from the this group. (Neocons just do not have the numbers to provide the broad based support that the WOT enjoyed/enjoys)
77
posted on
10/26/2005 9:31:36 AM PDT
by
rob777
To: Alberta's Child
Fineman's article is based on the false premise that the "neo-conservatives" are actually conservative. The reality is that they are nothing more than big-government globalists who have no real principles at all.
You are absolutely right. When they broke with the left over the issue of opposing communism, they ended up attaching themselves to the conservative movement. It was an accident of history that they came to be associated with the conservative movement, which opposed big government social engineering both at home and abroad. The necessity of opposing totalitarianism abroad caused conservatives (Most of them anyway) to adopt a more aggressive foriegn policy. The communist infiltration on the left led them to back away from their historic Wilsonian global social engineering in favor of a more overtly Marxist based approach. While I think that we should welcome the support of the neocons on areas of agreement (what few there are), we should not make the mistake of viewing them as part of the conservative movement. What we are seeing today is a clarification of what conservatism. Allowing "Corporatists" and "Neocons" to be lumped in with a movement whose core was a commitment to limited government and an opposition to top down government led social engineering, bastardizes the meaning of the word.
78
posted on
10/26/2005 9:49:18 AM PDT
by
rob777
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