Christian Zionists Tackle Church Divestment Campaign

Jewish Press ^ | 10-24-05 | Julie Stahl

[wolfpat]

I wasn't aware that there is such a thing as a real Christian who isn't a Zionist.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[VxH]

"I wasn't aware that there is such a thing as a real Christian who isn't a Zionist."

 

 

[...That the Israeli settlement of Palestine was to occur,
they say, is indicated by numerous Old Testament promises that grant the
land forever to Israel. This teaching is often understood as a form of Zionism,
a nationalistic Jewish movement that believes the land of Israel
belongs to the Jews.

However, the land never did belong to Israel as such. Throughout the
Old Testament the land belongs only to God (cf. Ps 24:1), for He is the one
who gives it to Israel (e.g., Deut 6:10–11). Land could not be permanently
bought or sold (cf. 1 Ki 21:1–16). It could not be permanently given away,
let alone stolen or confiscated. The land was never at the disposal of Israel
for its national purposes.

The land of Israel, furthermore, is conspicuous by its absence in the
teachings of Jesus.]

 

From: The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Lutheran Doctrine and Practice- 

 

A Lutheran Response to the “Left Behind” Series  (908kb pdf file)

[308MBR]

Amen to that brother. I'm just a mensch. These twerpy old lind Protestant churches (and you know who you are) preaching divestment from Israel are flat wrong. Most of your members don't agree with that any more than they do having openly practicing homosexuals in positions of leadership. Tell you what. I'll invest $100 in Israel and you invest $100 with the palislimians and in ten years I'll be rich and you won't have a dollar.

Before I get written up for gay bashing, let it be known I regularly do a few things that don't agree with my church covenant either, but I dont' wear them on my sleeve nor do I have or seek a leadership position in my church. If everyone had to find a church they agreed with 100%, there woudl be about 200 million churches in this country with 1.5 members each. I may be a hypocrite, but if a hypocrite is standing between you and God, the hypocrite is closer than you!

OK that's enough preaching from the peanut gallery.

[Dr. Thorne]

Let's post the brand names of merchandise made in Israel, retail stores that carry that merchandise and Israeli companies that would constitute good investments.

For parents, The Rugged Bear carries lots of children's clothes made in Israel. My wife and I bought several outfits of Israeli origin for our daughter this past weekend.

[Sam Gamgee]

There isn't. Not anymore than white tent headed lynch mobs were Christians.

[Sam Gamgee]

The Moslems came some time after 600 AD. The Jews were there LOOOOOONG before the Moslems. Pretty damn simple if you ask me. The Missouri synod are bigots anyways - they will not allow anyone other than baptized Lutherans take part in their communion.

[VxH]

"The Jews were there LOOOOOONG before the Moslems. Pretty damn simple if you ask me."

 

Hmmm - so, applying your "simple", silly, logic, we should immediately return the Black Hills to the Sioux and we should give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California to the Mechistas?

 

After all, they will say, they were there LOOOOOONG before the Anglos.

 

 

[rmlew]

Jews were there first.
Jews control it now.
End of story.

PS. The Chicano population of Texas and California was tiny.

[VxH]

"they will not allow anyone other than baptized Lutherans take part in their communion."

 

Incorrect.

 

Here is the statement on the back of the LCMS standard communion card:

 

The Lord's Supper is celebrated at this congregation in the confession and glad confidence that, as He says, our Lord gives into our mouths not only bread and wine but His very body and blood to eat and to drink for the forgiveness of sins and to strengthen our union with Him and with one another. Our Lord invites to His table those who trust in His Words, repent of all sin, and set aside any refusal to forgive and love as He forgives and loves us, that they may show forth His death until He comes.

Because those who eat and drink our Lord's body and blood unworthily do so to their great harm and because Holy Communion is a confession of the faith which is confessed at this altar, any who are not yet instructed, in doubt, or who hold a confession differing from that of this congregation and The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, and yet desire to receive the Sacrament, are asked first to speak with the Pastor or an usher. For further study, see Matt. 5:23ff; 10:32ff; 18:15-35; 26:26- 29; 1 Cor. 11:17-34;

These cards are generally filled out by those in attendance, Lutherans and NonLutherans alike, who wish to commune. 

If your faith is in accordance with the Lutheran Confessions, you can commune.  

For a more detailed treatment of this subject refer to:   Admission to the Lord's Supper

 

 

[VxH]

"Jews control it now."

 

Well, not exactly.

 

You seem to have forgotten that it is God who controls it now and forever.

 

Those who live there - Jew, Arab, whatever- do so at His pleasure.

 

Jer 25:8-11

 

8 Therefore the LORD Almighty says this: "Because you have not listened to my words,

9 I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the LORD, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin.

10 I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp.

11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

Hab 1:6-12
6 I am raising up the Babylonians,that ruthless and impetuous people, who sweep across the whole earth to seize dwelling places not their own. 7 They are a feared and dreaded people; they are a law to themselves and promote their own honor. 8 Their horses are swifter than leopards, fiercer than wolves at dusk. Their cavalry gallops headlong; their horsemen come from afar. They fly like a vulture swooping to devour; 9 they all come bent on violence. Their hordes advance like a desert wind and gather prisoners like sand. 10 They deride kings and scoff at rulers. They laugh at all fortified cities; they build earthen ramps and capture them. 11 Then they sweep past like the wind and go on- guilty men, whose own strength is their god."
12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

 

 

Such a wascally webellious people. <G>

[Mi-kha-el]

"I may be a hypocrite, but if a hypocrite is standing between you and God, the hypocrite is closer than you!"

A hipocrite can never be close to G-d.

[Mi-kha-el]

Following this logic, no people can claim any national jurisdiction over any land 'cause the entire world was created by G-d and thus belongs to G-d. I believe that is true but should we get of Israel's back and concentrate on our own relationship with G-d?

[Convert from ECUSA]

Christian Zionist ping!

[Sam Gamgee]

If the natives want to purchase land back from us, sure. Which is exactly what the returning Jews did. The point is the so called Palestinians have less legal right to the land than the Jews, considering the Jews repopulated Palestine. The majority of Palestinians there now came after 1948 to fill jobs.

[Sam Gamgee]

Exactly. I suppose my ancestors should have stayed in the praeries during the recession. I mean what right did they have to move into and populate the west coast?

[bubbleb]

Israel is a sovereign country and they have the right to defend it. They are our allies.
However, it is very unkind and untrue for you to call me a bigot.

"The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod has never understood or applied the historic practice of close[d] Communion in such a way as to mean that only LCMS members are permitted to commune at LCMS altars. The official position of the Synod is that not only are members of other Lutheran churches with whom we are in altar and pulpit fellowship invited to commune with us, but also that in certain extraordinary cases of pastoral care and in emergencies members of churches not in fellowship with us may be given Communion. The Synod stated, for example, in 1986 "that pastors and congregations of The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod continue to abide by the practice of close communion, which includes the necessity of exercising responsible pastoral care in extraordinary situations and circumstances" (1986 Res. 3-08 "To Maintain Practice of Close Communion")."

[Sam Gamgee]

I do apologize. I let the issue get me overly emotional.

[bubbleb]

Thank you. I appreciate you being a gentleman.