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"In re Subpeonas, re J. Miller"
D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals ^ | February 05 | D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals

Posted on 10/22/2005 7:16:36 PM PDT by churchillbuff

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To: Reactionary

just suppose....perhaps the Ambassador was helping himself to a little "Oil for Food"...and that on his little trip to Nigeria someone was watching his bank account just to see what would happen.............hmmmmm. Might come home really pissed off at ole Rove!!!!


61 posted on 10/22/2005 9:04:05 PM PDT by mo
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To: sinkspur
If the evidence was so rock solid, why has Fitzgerald STILL not indicted anybody?

LoL! If I remember correctly, the Grand Jury disbands on or after 28th of October. Fitzgerald has got to make some decision by then.

62 posted on 10/22/2005 9:05:00 PM PDT by demlosers
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To: churchillbuff
That's funny, but what do you say about the judges' comments - - their statement that this is a serious case, with serious evidence?

The suggested gravity could well translate to the pursuit of a CIA-based conspiracy to undermine a sitting President during time of war.

Given that a.) an IIPA case seems inappropriate, b.) an Espionage Act charge against Rove/Libby seems a far stretch and c.) the SP was broadly charged with "following where the evidence leads", "the gravity of the reported crime" and invoking "national security" suggests a far deeper and more serious affair is under investigation.

63 posted on 10/22/2005 9:13:20 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Sam Hill
After 85 days, Ms. Miller decided she should testify and she did. She testified that Libby did NOT give her Plame's name, and thus no felony has occured WRT her.

If this is the case why did Miller spend 85 days in jail? What was she protecting her source from?

Are you saying that Miller is a complete idiot especially when Libby not once, but twice gave her a release before she went to jail?

What's your theory on why Miller went to jail? Do you actually buy her explanation?

64 posted on 10/22/2005 9:16:06 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: Reactionary
It was a CIA plot. That is the story here. It has nothing to do with this idiocy involving Plame. Plame and her husband and others in the CIA ran a rogue operation to discredit a president. And? They had the help of journalists in the effort, including (it appears) journalists at the New York Times.

That's the gist of it.

65 posted on 10/22/2005 9:23:59 PM PDT by demlosers
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To: RAldrich
Thank you for the referral, but I have read it. My question was more one of my pontificating and not being able to come up with a reasonable answer. To hear the MSM, Roves response was to do something illegal, then commit perjury and obstruction. I do not believe Rove is that stupid. If he outted her, he did so without knowing she was covert (if she was). That means the 1982 Espionage Act was not violated. NOW! It escalates to appointing Fitzgerald. Before Rove does any other thing he get lawyered up big time. He is instructed by Bush to be completely transparent and cooperative with the special council. He remembers what happened to clinton when he committed perjury. NOW, the MSM would have us believe after all of that, he committted perjury and obstruction of justice. That scenario playing out just does not ring true.

Now here is where I confound myself. What makes me believe I know more than the NYT, Matthews, Washington Post, all liberal pundents. They are smart people and it seeems to them to be the most logical explaination?I want the Bush administration to be exonnerated. They want the Bush administration to go down in flames. They have their theory. I have my theory. Am I delusional or are they delusional? I believe I am correct notwithstanding all of their inside information and intellect. I believe I am correct because it would be out of character for Bush, Rove, and his administration to behave outside of the law. That is not what any of the Bush administration has been about.

It seems in character with the CIA from Tenent on down to think they would like to do it. All, then, it took would be to have a ballsy group think they will try to do it. Someone with hubris of a grizzley bear. Someone who believes he can outfox all of the guns at the White HOuse. Someone like Wilson. He does his little thing and sits back and waits and sees whether it takes, perhaps with the help of some media friends. Could they throw enough crap against the barn door that some might stick.

Yes that is the only thing that makes sense. With all of the rumor, confabulation, smokescreens, and the rest,....that is the only thing that makes sense.

Now, is Fitzgerald an honest American lawyer. They are as scarce as hens teeth, but I believe that he is, from all accounts. The problem is that all of the accounts come from the MSM.

66 posted on 10/22/2005 9:24:47 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: Reactionary
Plame and her husband and others in the CIA ran a rogue operation to discredit a president. And? They had the help of journalists in the effort, including (it appears) journalists at the New York Times.

Would this surprise anyone? Does anybody seriously buy Miller's explanation of why she spent 85 days in jail and then suddenly Libby decides to release her after all that time?

67 posted on 10/22/2005 9:27:38 PM PDT by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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To: mo

"just suppose....perhaps the Ambassador was helping himself to a little "Oil for Food"...and that on his little trip to Niger someone was watching his bank account just to see what would happen.............hmmmmm. Might come home really pissed off at ole Rove!!!!"

With regard to Wilson's business interests, see this FR post -\http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1256475/posts - entitled "What Wilson Didn't Say About Africa."

Interesting excerpt: "Wilson ran his company out of the offices of an investment company called Rock Creek Corporation. Rock Creek was controlled by Mohammed Alamoudi, whom Wilson had met in 1997 at a reception organized for the World Bank by Westar Group. Alamoudi was a member of the Saudi-Ethiopian Alamoudi dynasty, which was heavily invested in the segments of the African economy Wilson was seeking to penetrate. The Alamoudi-affiliated company Delta Services--a Swiss subsidiary of the Saudi company Delta Oil--handled Iraqi oil export contracts in 2000 and 2001 and was revealed in 2003 as a recipient of Iraqi Oil-for-Food vouchers channeled through Abu Abbas, a Palestinian terrorist with Iraqi connections."


68 posted on 10/22/2005 9:28:02 PM PDT by RAldrich
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To: RAldrich

hmmm..it would appear there really is basis for such speculation!!! This guy is scum.


69 posted on 10/22/2005 9:36:32 PM PDT by mo
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To: okie01

"the gravity of the reported crime" and invoking "national security" suggests a far deeper and more serious affair is under investigation."

No, it doesn't. And as even Larry Zero Donnell confirmed, the judge doesn't think so either.

I don't know why everyone is so eager to go flying off the handle. This was about an alleged leak of an alleged covert CIA officer.

That's it. And it is SILLY to try to make it into something else.

Look at the list of those who appeared before the Grand Jury. Sheesh.


70 posted on 10/22/2005 9:37:40 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: RAldrich

Who are the people who were summoned before the Grand Jury that would be able to testify about "oil for food"?

Why is everyone so eager to ignore the simple facts of the case. This is just plain goofy.


71 posted on 10/22/2005 9:39:11 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Texas Songwriter
One more question....will someone please answer for me......WHY WAS WILSON SENT TO NIGER TO REPRESENT THE USA REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT IRAQ WAS BUYING YELLOWCAKE? WHY? WHY? WHY?

Oh, that was merely a return volley from the CIA in its war against the DIA.

72 posted on 10/22/2005 9:47:19 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Sam Hill
That's it. And it is SILLY to try to make it into something else.

But "something else" was what churchillsbluff was trying to make of it.

My point was that, if the affair was so serious as the article implied, it would mean that the scope of the investigation had been expanded to stuff that was really serious -- well beyond a contrived perjury or obstruction charge.

Which, of course, would be an outcome that the original poster would not favor...

73 posted on 10/22/2005 9:48:26 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Sam Hill; frankjr; oceanview; Txsleuth; Bush gal in LA
Maybe Fitzgerald is investigating the possibility of illegal music file sharing between Miller and Libby.

I heard a rumor that Libby sent the mp3 version of a "Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress " by the Hollies to Miller.
74 posted on 10/22/2005 9:50:16 PM PDT by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Perdogg

Aha---I think you have got it, Sherlock!

LOL


75 posted on 10/22/2005 9:53:41 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: okie01

"My point was that, if the affair was so serious as the article implied, it would mean that the scope of the investigation had been expanded to stuff that was really serious -- well beyond a contrived perjury or obstruction charge."

The seriousness is the IIAP law. This is from the February hearing deciding whether to put Miller and Cooper in jail for not cooperating with Fitzgerald.

I've seen nothing to indicate that Fitzgerald has ever been investigating anything else. And as even "Madman" Larry O'Donnell concedes, the judge says that's what this is about.

Don't let people like Churchillbuff (LOL) confuse you.


76 posted on 10/22/2005 9:54:24 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

"Who are the people who were summoned before the Grand Jury that would be able to testify about "oil for food"?

Why is everyone so eager to ignore the simple facts of the case. This is just plain goofy."

Because we want to understand the context of the case. There is "the case" and there is how it came about.

If there were indictments, I assume that the Defense attorneys would start a discovery process vis-a-vis Mr. Wilson, going into his character, motivations, etc., and if there were firm evidence that what we are talking about were true, then that would be introduced into the case.


77 posted on 10/22/2005 9:55:52 PM PDT by RAldrich
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To: tet68; Sam Hill; Perdogg; feedback doctor; cyncooper; frankjr; StarFan

I think feedback at # 31 is on to something too, at least as far as theorizing the illegal outing of Plame is not the serious national security threat which Fitzgerald used to convince the 3 judge panel to jail reporters, if they refused to testify. There has to be another, bigger crime. OR could it be Fitzgerald was looking to indict the Vice President for outting Plame? Now THAT would qualify as a BIG crime, worthy of all those redacted pages Fitzgerald sent to the 3 judge panel.

Considering his reputation, I can't imagine Fitzgerald would use over the top, hyperbolic language to sway those judges. He had all those redacted pages of proof he was after something big, something that affected our national security.

Perdogg at #34 raises another question when he writes: "the proscecuter goes to the gJ and asks if there is enough evidence to issue a bill of indictment on preponderance of the evidence. 12 jurors out of 16-23 must vote in the affirmative to carry the bill of indictment. This is according to Rule 6(e)."

According to all accounts I've read, Fitzgerald hasn't decided yet whether to issue indictments or not, which defies logic, considering the language Fitzgerald used to convince the 3 judge panel to let him jail reporters to force their testimony. Has the GJ voted already? Do they have to vote, or could Fitzgerald simply say "thanks" and send them packing without voting? The Grand Jury doesn't meet again till Wednesday.

One thing for certain, finding 12 DC jurors out of 16, who would vote to indict any Bush administration member, would not be hard at all.

I go from optimistic to gloomy doom. Mostly, I just want this suspense to end.


78 posted on 10/22/2005 10:57:18 PM PDT by YaYa123 (@Scared spitless.com)
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To: churchillbuff
So the outing of Plame was harmful to "national security"?

No, but consider these:

1. Filing a false report to the Justice Department claiming that Plame was covert when she wasn't.

2. Badly forged documents being used as so-called "intelligence flaws" to undermine real evidence that Saddam Hussein's Iraq sought uranium from Niger.

3. Steady leaks of classified information coming out of Langley in 2003 intended to turn public opinion against the war in Iraq.

Elements of the CIA acting as a rogue agency with their own political agenda, trying to influence elections; that IS a threat to national security. If you read Fitzgerald's filings, he always refers to Plame as a "purported" covert CIA operative.

And then there is this in Fitzgerald's filing to the Supreme Court in the case against Miller and Cooper:

In a memorandum opinion dated November 10, 2004, the district court relied on the grounds stated in the court’s July 20, 2004 opinion, and on the additional ground that the new subpoenas “stem[med] from legitimate needs due to an unanticipated shift in the grand jury’s investigation”...

The "new subpoenas" referenced were expanded from just being related to the leak of Plame's identity to include everything they discussed about Wilson's 2002 trip to Niger and everything they discussed about Wilson himself. Whether he signed a non-disclosure agreement or not, Wilson may have revealed classified information in his NY Times Op Ed. And that also is a threat to national security. Don't forget, Joe Wilson started working for John F. Kerry BEFORE he wrote his NYT Op Ed. I'd like to see Kerry and little Sandy Berger hauled in to testify at a trial of Joe Wilson.
79 posted on 10/22/2005 11:29:06 PM PDT by advance_copy (Stand for life, or nothing at all)
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To: Sam Hill
The extent of Fitzgerald's investigation is revealed by who has appeared before the Grand Jury. This is about the Plame leak and nothing else.

Except we don't know who has appeared before the Grand Jury as the F list you reference implicitly acknowledges (it says that John Hannah and David Wurmser are believed to have appeared). And how do we know what all those appearing were asked about any way. Just what do Hannah and Wurmser have to do with the Plame leak?

It may be about a lot else.

80 posted on 10/23/2005 3:38:01 AM PDT by wotan
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