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To: Indy Pendance

Six years isn't instant, it's quite some time to wait, and forever is unacceptable. But more than that it is not at all a given that the direction they intend to go is the one they promised. Remember "smaller government"?

Seeing the GOP buy into "diversity" six years into a reign that was promised to bring us rightwards is a very bad sign. Six years is plenty to wait. The GOP has taken our patience and abused it, and relied on our faith and support to allow them the freedom to move left.

It's time to create some pressure on the right. We should be smart and learn what works - the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Those whose support is not a given get all the benefits.

It's time to exercise power in this proven way: Let the others fight among each other; and let us be the difference in which one will win, so that the winner will do our bidding.

To continue as we are in blind faith is to waste our efforts and our breath for no gain. The GOP and Democrat parties are more faithful to the power-sharing system that they have worked out between them than to any of the constituent groups that make up their respective electoral bases - but they will always heed the ones whose choice will make the difference between winning and losing. If by exercising the choice to sit out (or at the minimum preserving the ability to make a credible threat to do so), and to thereby punish elected officials for failing to serve our concerns, we get someone worse in the short term, then it will be worth the sacrifice to ensure that our next representative will be made of sterner stuff than the names on the Neuticles gift registry.


412 posted on 10/20/2005 9:44:36 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("Stare decisis" means every bad decision a court ever made is perpetually binding)
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To: thoughtomator
"The GOP has taken our patience and abused it, and relied on our faith and support to allow them the freedom to move left."

Agree. And it sucks big time. I really don't know what else to say. The word "sucks" isn't in my normal vocab...but it's the only thing I can think of right now.

429 posted on 10/20/2005 9:49:55 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: thoughtomator

So, lets just give up. Don't fight the battle, don't see the long term goals, lets go for the instant gratification, you know the orgasm. It's been 5 long years. It took 11 years to get the constitution ratifited. That doesn't matter. Let's just throw in the towel.


435 posted on 10/20/2005 9:53:54 PM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: thoughtomator

The winner is doing our bidding already, tomato. It's a two-party system, and that is not likely to change any time soon because the masses (that's us) don't want more parties stinking things up.

The r/r threatened to sit it out the first time Bush ran, and it didn't hurt my side. The second time around, they weren't nearly as smug about their "power".

I'm not sure the GOP is in any position now where it can threaten or be threatened. We have evolved.


456 posted on 10/20/2005 10:03:57 PM PDT by unsycophant
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To: thoughtomator

"but they will always heed the ones whose choice will make the difference between winning and losing."

God, I wish I was louder.


457 posted on 10/20/2005 10:04:08 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: thoughtomator
The GOP has taken our patience and abused it, and relied on our faith and support to allow them the freedom to move left.

It's time to create some pressure on the right. We should be smart and learn what works - the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Those whose support is not a given get all the benefits.

It's time to exercise power in this proven way: Let the others fight among each other; and let us be the difference in which one will win, so that the winner will do our bidding.

I agree with this, but I disagree with:

If by exercising the choice to sit out (or at the minimum preserving the ability to make a credible threat to do so).

"Sitting out" does not do the job.  Too many pundits and analysts will claim that people sit out because the party is not liberal enough (a "bigger tent" is needed).  I believe the proper action is to consistently vote for the candidate who best represents you, even if that is a third party candidate who cannot win.  The vote for the third party candidate who better represents you demonstrates that the major party should consider the opinions of that candidate in the future.  It is also important to vote for the Republican* candidate who does represent you well.  Don't punish all Republicans for the failings of others.

This is a long term strategy.  As proof, consider that the move of the Democratic party towards socialism was most likely precipitated by voters for communist and socialist parties receiving sufficient votes to affect elections.

* I assume it to be impossible that a Democrat candidate will represent me.

527 posted on 10/20/2005 10:57:52 PM PDT by etlib (No creature without tentacles has ever developed true intelligence)
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To: thoughtomator

You sound like someone who thinks being voted into power means forcing the opposition (in this case about 49%) to like whatever choices are made, or lump it.

There will be no smaller government in the near future, because too many people don't want it yet. No need to scare them off right now. We will convince them and make changes incrementally and show them why these are good ideas, not just because we can make them lump it.


660 posted on 10/23/2005 11:55:04 PM PDT by Victoria
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