[Viking2002]

Let's see if we can nutshell the argument of the enviroNuts:

1) No fossil fuel. Greedy, evil, corporate Big Oil Republicans, toxic pollution, global warming, yada, yada, yada.....

2) No wind power. Pureed pidgeons, alters the local weather patterns, etc........

3) No nuke power. This one requires no 'splaining.

4) No hydroelectric power. Alters the hydrological topology, causes forest fires, poor fishies can't swim upstream to spawn, gives you bad breath and dandruff, blah, blah, blah......

We're down to what, 5), solar power, which is of dubious efficiency and prohibitively expensive on a large scale?

I propose that we build giant hamster wheels connected to the shafts of every power turbine in the nation, throw the ecoNazis inside, then slam the cage doors shut. Hang a mesh sack of pine nuts and tofu inside as bait. Then we're off the Arab oil teat, the environment is clean, and the tree huggers have a constructive use for a change.

Problem solved.

[SERUM10]

Blame it on the bunnies!! The canny critters know to hang out under the wind mills when spinning as quite a safe place to graze. Btw, this issue has been know for ten years at Altamont Pass but it conflicts with the state's goal of getting 20% generation from renewables so was ignored and/or suppressed.

[Trajan88]

Oh the humanity (or is it avianidity?).

[SandRat]

Who couldn't predict that a rapidly-spinning blade in the sky would put the smackdown on birds?

uhhhhhhh,... the ENVIRONUTTZOIDS that demanded the wind turbines.

[tiki]

We need a few in our fields the birds eat more than we do.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

SAVE THE BIRDS! BURN MORE COAL!

SAVE THE FORESTS! BURN MORE COAL!

NO NUKES! BURN MORE COAL!

MORE HEATING OIL FOR HOMES ONLY! BURN MORE COAL!

NATURL GAS FOR HOMES ONLY! BURN MORE COAL!

[frithguild]

[sionnsar]

(re: Altamont pass:)

From a much earlier thread:

Since the phalanx of giant windmills began churning in the air [...] an estimated 22,000 birds have died, including hundreds of golden eagles, red-tailed hawks, kestrels and other raptors,

Let's see, that's 22000 birds total, and since they only say "hundreds" I'll be generous and say 1000 raptors, killed by 7000 windmills over two decades. Let's run the numbers:

22000 / 20 = 1100 birds per year. 1000 / 20 = 50 raptors per year.

1100 / 365.25 = 3.01 birds per day. 50 / 365.25 = 0.136 raptors per day (1/0.136 = 7.3 days / raptor, or one raptor per week)

3.01 / 7000 = 0.0043 birds per day per windmill (1/0.043 = it takes 2326 windmills to kill one bird per day) 0.136 / 7000 = 1.94e-5 raptors per day per windmill (1/1.94e-5 = it takes 51471 windmills to kill one raptor a day)

From this article: Every year, turbines there kill about 60 golden eagles, 300 red-tailed hawks, 270 burrowing owls and hundreds of other protected raptors, according to the Center for Biological Diversity.

Something odd here: these numbers list 630 + "hundreds" of raptors per year, roughly 20 times the number given in the study referenced by the original article. Could somebody, like a ("truth is what we say it is") leftist plaintiff with a political agenda, be playing fast and loose with the numbers?

[Old Seadog]

"Hey, I need a job."

[kittymyrib]

With migratory birds infecting domestic flocks with bird flu virus, this is another good reason to build windmills everywhere we can put them. Better birds die than people. I won't be feeding birds this winter at my place.

[DouglasKC]

Leftists are opposed to any source of cheap and abundant power because cheap and abundant power is what drives the American economy. Thus they will always find a reason to not support cheap and abundant power. Instead they will propose expensive, non-abundant power. The goal is to cripple the economy of the United States. It has nothing to do with the environment, ecology or any other e word.

[pillbox_girl]

I've said it before whenever I see one of these "Windmills kill birds" threads. And I'll keep repeating it:

Every time you see enviromentalists complain about wind power and bird deaths, they always talk about Altamont. And they ignore every other wind farm.

The truth is, bird deaths from wind turbines are very uncommon. Most large scale wind farms don't have any bird strikes in any given year. But the environmentalists don't ever seem to mention that fact.

Altamont is an anomoly, and it's high bird mortality rate isn't all that difficult to figure out. The reasons for Altamont's high bird strike numbers are well researched and correctable. But the Environmentalists don't ever seem to mention those studies either.

No, the environmentalists just keep repeating their "Wind Turbines Kill Birds" mantra, and leave it at that. Facts would only "complicate" the issue.

The single biggest problem with Altamont was that it was started early on by people with more idealism than knowledge. Today we know a lot more about turbine and tower design and placement.

The biggest factor contributing to the huge statistical anomaly of bird kills at Altamont is the tower design. Almost all of the towers at Altamont are an old strut design like what you see supporting most high tension power lines (see note below). Most of the birds killed at Altamont are predatory raptors. This is because predatory birds like to use the horizontal tower struts as convenient perching places to look out for prey. This attracts them to the towers and increases their chances of being hit by the turbine blades or electrocuted by the transmission lines.

Modern turbine towers which are built of a single solid walled vertical column offer predatory birds no locations for perching, and have significantly lower rates of predatory bird kills (like near zero). If Altamont replaced its towers, particularly those towers nearest the predatory bird nesting locations, with larger turbines on solid column towers, the number of bird kills would be significantly reduced (and possibly almost eliminated).

Another lower cost option that works is painting large alternating black and white bands on the turbine blades. The birds see the black bands as flying objects and avoid the turbine blades altogether. Painting a single turbine blade black works almost as well.

Of course, these fixes still haven't been made at Altamont, and so the environmentalists continue to use the Altamont bird death anomaly to incorrectly predict dire consequences for birds at proposed modern wind farms around the world.

Note: As an aside, simple, stationary high tension power line towers kill many times more more birds each year than all the wind turbines combined

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Miller said the Center for Biological Diversity successfully blocked a proposed wind farm in Southern California's Mojave Desert because it would have required building access roads in an area that is home to bighorn sheep.

I seriously doubt many bighorn sheep will be killed by vehicles and turbines. I wonder if ANY will die?

He also said the FPL's plan to shut down half of the Altamont turbines is not enough. His group supports the plan in the California Energy Commission's 2004 report, which recommended that the Altamont wind farm shut down completely during the winter. A partial shutdown "is going to do something, but it doesn't go far enough," Miller said.

Altamont's already making concessions to the Eco-Tyrants. What the hell does Miller want, bankruptcy??? Altamont could replace all its older models with newer, more bird-friendly ones, and I bet this Miller twit STILL won't be satisfied! As "fossil" fuels become more scarce (in relation to rising demand) over the coming decades and centuries, we are going to HAVE to build more wind farms, and, yes, we'll have to put up with some bird deaths, and a few Bighorn sheep may have to buy the farm. If you want more birds and sheep, breed them, start a farm, raise them for food and clothing uses! Got that, Miller???