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To: freema
I'm glad you enjoyed the exchange between Horowitz and Heilbrunn. I kind of had a feeling you would.

A couple of things off the top of my head. As far as "self-evident truths" go, I certainly hope they will not be relegated into the dustbin, as John Hancock seemed to think the phrase had merit. One could certainly argue that our Founding Fathers should have dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's" more carefully by explaining exactly what they meant by that. (But of course, because truth was self-evident to them, it didn't occur to them that an explanation might be necessary). To those on the left, they are less likely to actually denounce self-evident truths (although some do) and more likely to say that there are more truths now, hence the left's need for a "Living Constitution."

When Heilbrunn points out that conservatives are more serious than the left about principles and intellectual arguments, he is semi-right Conservatives are much more likely to regard the lessons of history and tradition when planning practically for the future and are more inclined to protect lessons learned in a fair manner. Horowitz points out that the purpose of the Intellectual Leftist is to be the antagonist, and he is also right. But I think Heilbrunn is wrong when he says we conservatives are "misled" into thinking that intellectual nonsense (coming from the left) is self-evident. I think that is precisely where conservatives have a leg up, so to speak. I may be speaking for myself only, but I must agree with Horowitz's comment that the left lives in a fantasy land that they cannot leave. I think politically-minded conservatives understand something that the left doesn't get. For instance, take the statement, "It would be wonderful if we could have world peace!" Well, who among us wouldn't wish for that? The problem is that the leftist line of thinking ends there in that fantasy land of immediate gratification. This is also why we see leftists become conservatives as they mature. You rarely ever see a conservative become a leftist (unless they were lying to begin with:) Conservatives did certainly fall asleep at the wheel for awhile, but I truly believe that there has been a "Great Awakening" going on. The Internet has been a great help to the vocally quieter conservatives. On the other hand, the looseness of the general atmosphere of the Internet has also been productive for the louder voices of the left and, in fact, lends itself more easily to their "anti-" purposes.

I understand, I think, where you're coming from in a desire to let the rioters know that whereas their actions were wrong, there is some constitutional and moral basis for their feelings. The counter-protestors who came in to make sure that the locals were going to be involved are probably at the point where no such compassion and understanding would work anyway. But I think that attempting to be an apologist for the actions of the rioters in ANY way is very dangerous. I don't think that anyone who looks at this violence is "misled" in thinking that in some areas of this country there is a culture of violence within some black communities, because it is a fact that this culture exists. Too many black leaders enable this culture to continue by pointing the finger of blame at everyone BUT those who are responsible. You point out that there are few conservative blacks. I would say that the number of conservative blacks is increasing as black communities begin to reject the blame game played by their leaders. The number will continue to increase as responsible black leaders (political and religious) go into their communitities with the message that violence will not be tolerated for ANY reason because civilized society can only exist when individuals are responsible to themselves, their families and their communities.

1,063 posted on 10/18/2005 2:17:53 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1
Apologies if some of the thoughts above are not completely fluid. I had to stop so many times while writing today that completing one sentence without my thoughts being interrupted became difficult.

I said, "When Heilbrunn points out that conservatives are more serious than the left about principles and intellectual arguments, he is semi-right," but I failed to go on to explain why he is ONLY half-right. It is because his statement implies that the left are NOT serious. While I do have some, albeit very few, leftist friends who are casual leftists in that they are the loud-mouth Bush-bashing types, the elite left is very serious about taking this country down and will stop at nothing in order to accomplish their goals.

1,064 posted on 10/18/2005 2:45:20 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

I enjoyed reading that!! I had a crazy afternoon and evening and I'm too pooped tonight to really concentrate, I can hardly keep my eyes open.


1,073 posted on 10/18/2005 8:09:28 PM PDT by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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