Broad Federal Effort Urgently Needed to Create High-Quality Jobs

http://www4.nationalacademies.org/news.nsf/isbn/0309100399?OpenDocument ^

[durasell]

The government's efforts at improving education have been proven failures for the last 60 years or so. Why should I think they will change now?




That's interesting. How so?

[baltodog]

Just about all anyone can do is show articles like this to our kids and encourage them to get good grades and keep studying.

One of the reasons I home-school is that I disagree with the "everyone is equal" philosophy of our school systems. That, I believe, is the basis for globalization.

Everyone is not equal. Stupid people exist. My kids are better than stupid. I want my kids to be in charge of stupid people -- not working for them, or with them.

[Safetgiver]

Don't get me wrong. a certain amount of regulation is necessary to insure good stewardship by business. But how do you determine where the line is? Asbestos regulations were originally targeted at those who mined it and those who used it in construction of many things. Then it became a school issue, a mechanics issue and finally a homeowners issue. Radon is another "problem" that originally was targeted at miners. Air pollution standards were to effect a 70% reduction, and once that was attained, it was decided to reduce more by another 50%. We regulate past the point of diminishing returns and THIS is what hurts businesses, taxpayers and property owners.

[indthkr]

While the concerns of these folks are valid, and attempt to address a huge problem, most of their proposals reek of big government and "handouts" to large dinosaur-like multinational corporations.

If it's profitable for an individual to become a scientist or an engineer, then they will. The money is the arbitar, not the employer. The job of the employer is to maximize profits; it can provide no guarentees to the individual. If you want the individual to take risks, give the tax breaks to the Individual.

Example: People who's direct work output (i.e., not their manager's) can be defined as Science or Engieering related pay No Federal Taxes up to $100,000 /year. I would also extend this to individuals who would be classfied as master machinists, technicians, etc. (i.e. they are direct to the "product"). Caveat: they must be U.S. citizens.. Immigrants who come here to work and choose to become citizens could have the option to reclaim there previously-taxed earnings.

I'm sure there are a lot of Americans who would attempt to get a PhD in Quantum Physics if they could make 60 or 70k a year tax free..

[WhiteGuy]

Every thing the federal government involves itself in, gets FUBAR.

[oldbrowser]

Many of today's students don't want to be at school and don't even try to learn. There biggest challenge every day is to see how much they can get away with without getting caught.

This is the key, if we make it culturally acceptable, even preferable to be an achiever then everything would change.

I know some grade school kids that have memorized dozens of rap songs but can't memorize multiplication tables.

These same kids think the object of going to school is to get by without actually learning anything.

What we need is a leader to motivate the teachers and the students to excel, the rest will follow.

[A. Pole]

What we need is a leader to motivate the teachers and the students to excel, the rest will follow.

The key motivation is to provide some career security and rewards. If the physician jobs were not protected by strict regulations and anybody with any MD paper from any country in the world could come and work in USA as a doctor, how many American students would be willing to sacrifice several years of hard work and risk countless thousands of dollars (usually borrowed) in shaky investment? VERY FEW!

No gifted leader can change it.

[Iris7]

You mentioned Omaha Beach, Okinawa, and Bastogne.

The Omaha Beach guys were mostly 1st Infantry Division with many long service people and recruits from 1942 and 1943. The 1st Infantry Division was reliable throughout the war.

Okinawa was Marine Corps and what, two Army Infantry Divisions?, men who largely had been in the theater for some time. The problem with recruits did not become serious until the second half of 1944. I did not include the Marines as having problems with recruits. The Marine tough training technique was accepted by the public and politicians because "the Marines are tough".

The guys who held out at Bastogne were the 101st Airborne who were long service and volunteers. Their replacements were volunteers also. Anyone unwilling simply decided to flunk jump school. The 101st was sent to Bastogne because other reliable Army units were in very short supply, again, because of poor replacement quality and incorrect training caused by political decisions.

You will find a lot of 1942 Pacific War vets, Navy, Army, and Marines, complaining in their memoirs about the junk men they got sent from middle 1943 on. They were uniformly described as self pitying whiners who would not pull their weight.

Good infantry junior officers were so short by fall 1944 that aviation cadets and others of similar quality were transfered to the infantry. Often those lads really raised a ruckus when told of their transfer. The were told that they could resign their commissions if they wished but would then finish the war as infantry privates.

There was real worry that the usable infantry and armor units would run so low on good men that collapsing morale would make them ineffective. This did not happen, of course, except in a minority of units. The Germans surrendered first.

Imagine drafting DU types and others like them, some not as bad and some much worse. Gang Bangers. Inner city lads. How would you train them to be good soldiers? Well, it can be done. Marine training before about 1955 would do it. There would be deaths in training and sometimes quite a few. Some German elite units (German troops were combat trained by the units to which they were assigned) had one man in ten killed in training. Not by accident, you see?

I have about thirty running feet of shelves filled with books on war. There are also some boxes full in storage.

[Iris7]

How so what? Is there something in his statement with which you disagree? I find all of it utterly uncontroversial.

[Iris7]

"What we need is a leader to motivate the teachers and the students to excel, the rest will follow."

That has been tried a thousand, a million times. Shoot, it happens thousands of times a day. It does not work. Eventually the leader type gives up. Tough ones last a year or two.

The only way to have education work is for a teacher to be able to say "I don't want that one in my class" and make it stick.

[fallujah-nuker]

Thanks for the info.

"Imagine drafting DU types and others like them..."

I actually do have a fantasy where Ozzy Osbournes fat a$$ son gets drafted!

"I have about thirty running feet of shelves filled with books on war. There are also some boxes full in storage."

You sound like a kindred spirit! For my eleventh birthday may father gave me several of the Ballantines "History of the Violent Century" books, that was in 1971 when they were still being issued. I finally completed my collection a few years ago (thanks to the internet). I have a shelf devoted to them alone, 154 volumes, with several duplicate copies.

[durasell]

The so-called "government" schools are responsible for educating some of the most brilliant minds in America. The UC system in California, the CUNY system in NY, the specialized high schools in NYC, the huge number of state schools that educated returning WWII vets via the GI Bill, etc. etc.

The problem is, we've let them fall into a state of disrepeair. Things generally cost what they cost and most people are unwilling to pay the price.

[Iris7]

Thinking about what you said, find I agree when the non-financial costs are added to the financial ones. I do not believe more money will help things.

Have two girls in UW Madison, find that the teaching is not all that good. The TAs do the work and most are not good at it. Many grind very Leftist axes. The professors are not accessible. The students are too young to be willing to kick butt. There is radically too much drinking, much worse than the serious problem I knew it to be. There is a scandal running now about serious cronyism and misuse of state funds by top administration, certainly a bad example to faculty and staff.

[durasell]

You think so? Tell your girls to check out what goes on among the foreign students, specifically the Asian or Indian students.

The fact of the matter is, there is no will to change anything in most communities. People just like repeating the mantra, "It's broke beyond repair and money won't help." However, go to an upscale neighborhood where the high schoolers in public school regularly school in the top 3 percentile of SATs and go on to good colleges, and you won't hear too many complaints about high property taxes going to schools.

[lucysmom]

It's because our education system is poor but we pay a lot of freakin' money for it.

Our education system is poor because we, as a nation, are not committed to making it work. Roughly half of Americans who care support public education, while the other half strives to prove it doesn't work. Its like driving with one foot on the gas pedal and the other on the brake.

[lucysmom]

This says it all. The lawyers are making everything too expensive. Stupid corrupt lawsuits are draining funds, and forcing more companies over seas. You can fight competition, you can fight the government, but you can't fight law suits.

I suppose the ideal business environment would be one without government regulation except, of course, where government would restrict the right of people to sue business while putting no limits on business to business lawsuits.