Joseph Wilson EPIC Lecture 6/14/2003 Outline/Transcript

EPIC: Education for Peace in Iraq Center ^ | 6/14/2003 | Joseph Wilson as transcribed by Fedora

[kabar]

I would start with Wilson's July 6th NYT article, What I Didn't Find in Africa , in which he gives the inference that the VP sent him. He states, "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report."

Wilson goes on to say, "Those are the facts surrounding my efforts. The vice president's office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government."

"The question now is how that answer was or was not used by our political leadership. If my information was deemed inaccurate, I understand (though I would be very interested to know why). If, however, the information was ignored because it did not fit certain preconceptions about Iraq, then a legitimate argument can be made that we went to war under false pretenses. (It's worth remembering that in his March "Meet the Press" appearance, Mr. Cheney said that Saddam Hussein was "trying once again to produce nuclear weapons.")

Wilson tried to dance away from the VP connection on his October 5 MTP appearance. Transcript for October 5

Fedora has done some excellent work tying this all together with plenty of links. What Wilson Didn’t Say About Africa

[kabar]

I don't buy that either. I view Wilson as a political opportunist. He saw the President's State of the Union address as a way to launch his personal ambitions and get an in with the Kerry crowd. I doubt if Wilson has any deeply held views. He is a shameless self-promoter.

I have many questions as to why Wilson left the Foreign Service at a relatively young age and at the top of his career. His pension would have been shared by his two former wives, which would reduce his income severely by getting out. He may have been pushed out for internal reasons or he thought he could capitalize on his public experience in the private sector. I suspect it is a little bit of both.

[pinz-n-needlez]

Bump and a questions...

Barbara Kingsolver, the novelist? Who wrote a book on Congo missionaries, and is now living on a farm in Kentucky, excerpted in Utne magazine? That Barbara Kingsolver?

My conspiracy theories are turning into bumper cars. :-/

Pinz

[ravingnutter]

From my files...in reference to Vince Cannistraro, one of the VIPS members...

On January 2nd, 2001, police discover that the Nigerien Embassy [in Rome] has been broken into and documents and files were stolen. Italian investigators now believe that the breakin is related to the Niger forgeries.

Elisabetta Burba, a journalist for Panorama, receives a telephone call from Rocco Martoni telling her about the Niger documents, offering to sell them to here for ten thousand dollars. She meets with him and he gives her photocopies. She asks how they could be authenticated and he shows her a photocopy of the codebook from the Niger Embassy.

Italian authorities believe the codebook was obtained in the breakin of the Niger Embassy in 2001.

Daily Kos {Ugh}, while trying to blame Ledeen

Fedora found this:

During the next few weeks a documentary will be released in the US in which, alongside American diplomats that have served in Niger, a number of ex-CIA agents appear. The common objective that unites them is an attempt to demonstrate the role and responsibility of Bush in the dirty affair. No small coincidence this: those involved, as we have already indicated, are the movers and shakers behind a strategy put in place to favour the rise of JF Kerry. Amongst those involved is Vincent Cannistraro, ex-CIA and subsequently a security advisor to the Vatican. Its rather odd that Cannistraro, who in public conferences tried to convince the Americans of the dangers of the Iraqi nuclear threat, is now placing the blame for the false documents on the Italians.

Post #162

Was Cannistraro in Rome when the break-in happened? Inquiring minds would like to know...

[ravingnutter]

I don't see a reason for thinking people like Wilson would have set out on such a course before the Bush administration came into office.

See my last post...the breakin at the embassy occurred after Bush was elected, in Jan 2001.

[Enchante]

Thanks, I was thinking of that 2001 break-in and the suspected relationship to forging the Niger uranium documents as another reason it's unlikely that Joe Wilson was involved in planning this back to 1999; I think Wilson was drawn in by his wife and/or other CIA-related people once they became concerned to block Bush from moving toward war with Iraq. Probably late 2001 or early 2002.

The possible connections with a French intel operation and his 2nd wife are also intriguing. As discussed on other threads, Joe Wilson is close to a variety of current and ex- government officials from France (also Turkey and Saudi Arabia) who certainly do not have US interests at heart!! He may be an unwitting dupe (he is a dupe) or he may have seen a convergence of interests between his anti-Bush anti-neocon jihad and the work of French operatives.

As for Ghorbanifar, if he's connected that could make things murky, but he's also an easy scapegoat since the CIA has been trashing him for years (probably with justification). Any cabal of VIPS-type CIA people could easily set Ghorbanifar up as a fall guy if anything went wrong - his reputation is already trash and he cannot possibly defend himself to the CIA or most in US government and media. The question is motive: why on earth would a guy who's supposed to loath the Mullahs want to UNDERMINE a US war on Iraq (with a crappy set of forgeries which would easily be revealed as such) when such a war would put the US into a much stronger position to overthrow the Mullahs? (that's how it would have appeared in 1999-2001, though now it seems much less likely that the US will be ready for any new adventures soon)..... Ghorbanifar would seem to have every motive to want the US to succeed in Iraq. Ghorbanifar's also been alleged (by CIA types) to be behind the series of faxes that Curt Weldon received from another Iranian emigre that led to the book Weldon published this summer. Some CIA officials told Weldon he'd been 'had' by Ghorbanifar..... Don't know about that.

[Enchante]

"the breakin at the embassy occurred after Bush was elected, in Jan 2001."

Right, I was referring to the people who say Wilson's 1999 trip was tied into this and that he already had such a plan in motion. As for the Jan. 2001 break-in, the timing is indeed intriguing, since far-sighted intel operatives could well have realized by then that they wanted to head off a likely Bush confrontation with Iraq. If the embassy break-in did have to do with stealing embassy seals and stationery, etc..... but would the Niger embassy in Rome use the same kinds of seals and stationery as offices in the home country?

[Marine_Uncle]

"I have been "data-mining" Able Danger style, all day long running links between names familiar in this "story". So far I find it amazing, at how many of the names - linked to this case, run back to a very familiar Billionaire financier, George Soros.
The dots aren't completed yet, but the picture is becoming very clear. Again, within the agency, and even now outside there are people who know what happened and don't like it."

********* Thanks for efforts in attempt to establish some facts. Luckily as I have waded through these threads and then gotten to your post and read:
McGovern has compared the Iraq war to Vietnam, even saying that it could lead to nuclear war. He has charged that if WMDs are found in Iraq, they may well have been planted.
Luckily I was not drinking coffee or something or surely my keyboard and monitor would be soaken wet at this point. Idiots begat idiots. What else can I say. And I shall continue to wonder, just where those 500 tons of yellow cake found at the nuclear research center of Al-Tuwaitha, originated from. If it was not mined from the Al Anbar uranium pits then where did it come from. There where not that many companies that mine/sell yellow cake, willing to deal directly with Iraq between 1980 to 2003. There is no way around it. And we well know the French where up to their as$holes with Iraq during that period of time to help them build up their nuclear program. And we know that French and Russian advisors of all types had to quickly get out just prior to the invasion. Wilson was probably so deeply involved in deals that yet will be uncovered as to how he gained in personal wealth, either directly at the time or by future agreements for paybacks that he had every reason to try to cloud his path. And if this is true, then he really can be found to be a real idiot. He should have shut his mouth and played along with the powers that be. The best set plans to cover ones tracks are often thwarted in todays world of information exchange. The references to his affilation with the French companies outlined in these threads come to mind. As for Soros. It would be strange if he where not involved. At any rate don't feel obligated to respond to my respond, clearly I offer nothing of value to the hunt for the truth in these matters.

[Enchante]

"Wilson was probably so deeply involved in deals that yet will be uncovered as to how he gained in personal wealth, either directly at the time or by future agreements for paybacks"

Yes, I too have very strong suspicions about Wilson's business activities, especially with the French, Turkish, and Saudi connections which Fedora has detailed so well. I really wish subpoenas for all of his business and phone/email records could arise from the current GJ investigation (Fitzgerald would have to have cause, of course, I'm not talking about a Clintonista-style fishing expedition, as much fun as that might be), because I suspect he has been profiting in all sorts of ways from his anti-American treachery. Even if there's no criminal issue to pursue (which would surprise me), I'll bet that his notoriety as a virulent critic of the Bush administration on Iraq has brought him new business from foreign companies and investors who want to reward him. And I wouldn't be surprised if the truth is more nefarious than that....

[Marine_Uncle]

Since your statements are so fresh in the thread, I will not hightlight them. Damn if you are not on the nail IMHO. I cannot help but think of how many people may be very intimately be involved in past dealings with the Butcher's reprentatives at various levels. Surely the surface of guilt has bearly been scratched. So many will be spared any finger pointing. Think of the books that will eventually be written as who supported Saddam Hussien.

[Fedora]

Thanks for posting the actual text of that passage. It's been a while since I read it and my memory was hazy on the exact wording--I'm not sure now where I got the impression the individual was previously known to Novak. From the wording there, it does seem "stranger" might be compatible with the quote from the link in Post 50.

The Chambers comparison is interesting.

[Fedora]

On Canninstraro, it is also notable that he had inserted himself into the WMD controversy at least by October 2002, when he was talking to Julian Borger of The Guardian, who would later obtain an exclusive interview with Joseph Wilson:

Julian Borger, "White House 'exaggerating Iraqi threat': Bush's televised address attacked by US intelligence", The Guardian, 10/9/2002

"Basically, cooked information is working its way into high-level pronouncements and there's a lot of unhappiness about it in intelligence, especially among analysts at the CIA," said Vincent Cannistraro, the CIA's former head of counter-intelligence.

This may or may not be relevant to the type of scenario postulated in #78. I regard this as a possible motive for Wilson's trip; however, it's also possible he was initially motivated by potential profit for his consulting business and either during the trip or after was persuaded, bribed, blackmailed, or otherwise influenced into becoming part of an operation previously initiated by others. At the time Wilson's NYT op-ed came out, the British were pursuing an investigation into whether French intelligence had tried to use the Niger forgeries to discredit British and US claims of Iraq possessing WMDs. At the time there were some leaks to the press that the British were keeping the details on the French role classified to avoid embarrassing a foreign government; some of the declassified information on the parallel US investigation likewise refers to an unnamed foreign government. Later some information was released, though I imagine what was released is quite incomplete:

French Probe Led to 'Fake Niger Uranium Papers'

[nuffsenuff]

Man I hope Fitzgerald is reading this.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

Here is something for him to read....this may or may not have been posted elsewhere. If it has, forgive me. This was written by Larry Johnson 10/06/05 as the "certain" indictment of Rove was hitting the news again.
I was going to excerpt it, but as I said, it all makes my head spin. He offers his version of a timeline.

---

http://www.freddevan.com/blog/archives/00007704.html

10/06/2005: "A Case Of Treason" Larry Johnson

The investigation into who in the Bush administration leaked the fact that Valerie Plame, wife of former US Ambassador Joseph Wilson, was a CIA undercover operative, is nearing completion. Virtually lost in the recent spurt of press reporting is the fact that the compromise of Ms. Plame (and, as night follows the day her carefully cultivated network of spies) was unconscionable. Ms. Plame, a very gifted case officer, was a close colleague of mine at CIA. Her dedication and courage were clear in her willingness to assume the risks of an agent under non-official cover—meaning that if you get caught, too bad, you’re on your own; the US government never heard of you.

The supreme irony is that Plame’s network was reporting on the priority-one issue—weapons of mass destruction. Thus, it was made abundantly clear to all, including potential intelligence sources abroad, that even when priority-one intelligence targets are involved, Bush administration officials will not shrink from exposing such sources for petty political purpose. The harm to CIA and its efforts to recruit spies willing to take risks to provide intelligence information is immense.

Shortly after the invasion of Iraq, Ambassador Wilson publicly exposed an important lie, and the president as liar, when he debunked the report that Iraq was seeking uranium in the African country of Niger. Still, as Wilson himself has suggested, the primary objective of leaking his wife’s employment at CIA was not to retaliate against him personally, but rather to issue a stark warning to others privy to administration lies on the war not to speak out. Administration officials felt they needed to provide an object lesson of what truth tellers can expect in the way of swift retaliation.

All Based On A Forgery

Indictments or no, the mainstream media will continue to play down this key aspect of the story, and—equally important—prescind completely from the event that started the whole business—the forging of documents to feed the spurious report that Iraq was seeking uranium in Niger for its (non-existent) nuclear weapons program. Together with other circumstantial evidence, the neuralgic reaction of Vice President Dick Cheney to press reports that he was point man for promoting the bogus report suggests that he may also have been its founding father, so to speak. We do not rule out the possibility that he and his chief of staff Lewis Libby may have had a hand in commissioning the forgery, as a way to come up with an “intelligence report” with “mushroom cloud” written all over it, in order to deceive Congress into approving an unnecessary war.

These are the key neglected issues underneath the superficial who-said-what-to-whom-when press reportage. Small wonder that many of those following this story are missing the forest for the trees. It is important that a fuller story be available to citizens of this country, to enable us all to judge the enormity and significance of what happened. Accordingly, my Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) colleagues and I thought it would be useful to boil down some key facts in digestible form:

Feb. 13, 2002: According to the Senate Intelligence Committee’s “Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq” of July 2004 (pp 38-39), Vice President Cheney asked his CIA morning briefer for the Agency’s analysis of a report he had seen in a Defense Intelligence Agency publication that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium from Niger. In response, the Director of Central Intelligence's Center for Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation, and Arms Control (WINPAC) issued an intelligence assessment with limited distribution. It said, “Information on the alleged uranium contract between Iraq and Niger comes exclusively from a foreign government service report that lacks crucial details, and we are working to clarify the information and to determine whether it can be corroborated.” The assessment also noted, “Some of the information in the report contradicts reporting from the U.S. Embassy in Niamey. U.S. diplomats say the French Government-led consortium that operates Niger's two uranium mines maintains complete control over uranium mining and yellowcake production." The CIA sent a separate version of the assessment to the Vice President’s office, which differed only in that it named the foreign government service. Officials from the CIA's Directorate of Operations (DO) told the Senate Intelligence Committee that, in response to questions from the Vice President's Office and also the Departments of State and Defense on the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal, all were told that the Agency would look into it further.

Feb. 19: CIA operations managers—not Valerie Plame—decide to send Joseph Wilson to Niger to make immediate inquiries, according to CIA officials. Wilson, who was acting ambassador in Baghdad when the 1991 Gulf War began, had also served in Niger before becoming ambassador to Gabon. After meeting with DO managers and other intelligence community officials at CIA headquarters on Feb. 19, Wilson was commissioned to go to Niger and investigate.

Feb. 26: Ambassador Wilson arrives in Niger. He determined during the course of his visit that there was no substance to the allegation that Iraq was trying to procure uranium in Niger. The U.S. Ambassador to Niger told the Senate Committee that Ambassador Wilson’s conclusion was the same as that reached earlier by the U.S. embassy in Niger.

Early March: Vice President Cheney asks his CIA briefer for an update on the Niger issue: According to the Senate report on intelligence prewar performance, Cheney had not forgotten his original request. And so CIA officers immediately debriefed Ambassador Wilson on the results of his trip, wrote up his report, and disseminated the report on 8 March (p. 42 of the Senate report).

Fall of 2002: CIA officials repeatedly warn Administration and Congressional officials not to accept as fact the claim that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium: According to the Senate report (p. 54), the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency told Senator Kyl that the CIA did not agree with the British view that Iraq was trying to acquire uranium. On Oct. 6, 2002, CIA Director Tenet called Deputy National Security Advisor Hadley and warned him not to use the information in a presidential speech the next day (three days before Congress voted to authorize war). Hadley removed the passage from the speech (p. 56).

Jan. 28, 2003: In his State of the Union Address, the President includes the (in)famous bogus “16 words.” The President says, “The British government has learned (sic) that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.”

May 23: Vice President Cheney’s office reacts neurologically to May 23 report by New York Times columnist Nick Kristof regarding the mission of a “former US ambassador” to Niger, and in particular to Kristof’s assertion that the Vice President had instigated the trip: According to former senior CIA officials, Cheney’s aides were ”very uptight about the vice president being tagged that way.”

June: The White House, with the participation of Karl Rove and Lewis Libby (and, according to one recent report, of the president and vice president themselves), conceives and then executes a plan to discredit Ambassador Wilson. A variety of reports from journalists and others show that as early as the end of May, White House officials were trying to dig up dirt on Ambassador Wilson. And the State Department reportedly drafted a top-secret memorandum that identified Valerie Plame by her maiden name and made the connection.

July 13 : Robert Novak, citing two Administration sources, identified Valerie Plame by name as a CIA operative. Plame was still undercover when Novak published her name and thus compromised not only Plame, but also the many agents she had recruited—to provide information on weapons of mass destruction, for example. She had conducted several overseas missions as part of her cover job.

Betrayal. There is no other word for it. Except, some might call it treason.

---

[Fedora]

Some references on post 92 I wanted to add, dates included to indicate the chronological relationship to Wilson's NYT op-ed and Novak's article mentioning Plame:

Michael Smith, "French secret service 'kept CIA in the dark over Iraq and uranium'", The Telegraph, 7/13/2003

The French secret service is believed to have refused to allow MI6 to give the Americans "credible" intelligence showing that Iraq was trying to buy uranium ore from Niger, US intelligence sources said yesterday. MI6 had more than one "different and credible" piece of intelligence to show that Iraq was attempting to buy the ore, known as yellowcake, British officials insisted. But it was given to them by at least one and possibly two intelligence services and, under the rules governing cooperation, it could not be shared with anyone else without the originator's permission.

US intelligence sources believe that the most likely source of the MI6 intelligence was the French secret service, the DGSE. Niger is a former French colony and its uranium mines are run by a French company that comes under the control of the French Atomic Energy Commission.

"France Denies It Gave UK Iraq Nuclear Intelligence", Reuters, 7/14/2003

Carey Evans, "The French Connection: Guess which country provided intelligence on uranium in Niger?", FrontPageMagazine.com, 7/16/2003

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

"Hey Joe! We hear Fitzgerald called you. Make sure your facts are consistent."

I am out of tin foil. Time to make a foil run before the store closes.

[Cautor]

bump. well worth the time to read IMO. Thanks to Fedora for giving us this.

[Fedora]

Thanks for posting the information. I don't think I'd seen that particular one before. Apart from the proposed timeline, I find this part of interest:

Ms. Plame, a very gifted case officer, was a close colleague of mine at CIA.

[Fedora]

Thanks for the bump!

[Cautor]

Good work. The traitor Wilson deserves all this kind of attention he deserves.