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'Black box' information driving convictions (Automobile black boxes)
Automotive Body Repair News ^ | Oct 3, 2005 | Tim Sramcik

Posted on 10/09/2005 5:04:56 PM PDT by Ben Mugged

In what is becoming a familiar scene in courtrooms nationwide, information collected from a car’s “black box” was used to convict a motorist of criminal charges.

On June 30, a Peabody, Mass., District Court jury found Michelle Zimmerman guilty of misdemeanor motor vehicle homicide in the death of her front seat passenger, Kenneth Carlson. The jury concluded Zimmerman was driving negligently when she skidded out of control and struck a tree on Jan. 4, 2003. Information collected from the event data recorder (EDR), or black box, in her GMC Yukon reported that Zimmerman was driving 58 mph in a 40 mph zone—on an icy road, according to Essex Assistant District Attorney William J. Melkonian. EDR data also showed that Zimmerman never applied the brakes.

Judge Santo Ruma sentenced Zimmerman to two years in prison, one year to be served with the balance suspended for three years of probation. The conviction carries a statutory 10-year loss of license.

Defense lawyer Robert Weiner has vowed to appeal based on his claims that the EDR data was misinterpreted and that police illegally obtained the data. The case could set a legal precedent in Massachusetts and nationwide where EDR information already has been introduced in more than two-dozen cases.

(Excerpt) Read more at abrn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: automobile; bigbrotheronwheels; blackbox; copinyourpocket; edr; eventdatarecorder; generalmotors; gm; nannystate; orwellalert; privacy
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To: Jeff Gordon

"If you think I need an ankle bracelet how can you object to auto black boxes?"

Your stunning intellect has convinced me that we need cameras and surveillance everywhere.


201 posted on 10/10/2005 7:49:32 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Lester Moore
Anyone that can say living under that kind of monitoring is freedom is pathological.

It is better than trial by walking on burning coals.

202 posted on 10/10/2005 7:50:51 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Lt. Gen. Russel Honore to MSM: "You are stuck on stupid. Over.")
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To: FastCoyote
Your stunning intellect has convinced me that we need cameras and surveillance everywhere.

I knew you would see the light.

203 posted on 10/10/2005 7:52:26 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Lt. Gen. Russel Honore to MSM: "You are stuck on stupid. Over.")
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To: CBart95
Are you sure you've thought enough about this to form an opinion?

The recorder captures about 5 seconds of data at the moment of the accident. 58 mph on icy roads. Breaks not pressed. Another poster pointed out that if the engine were revved the recorder would have recorded a false speed. The lady could have initially been going below the speed limit.

Have you driven on icy roads before? You can start a sideways skid and correct by accelerating a little and turning your wheels in the direction of the skid.

In the above case, you don't touch the breaks.

Sounds like this lady did the correct thing but was perhaps too close to the thing she hit.

Regardless, it is extremely dangerous to turn justice over to a machine.

204 posted on 10/10/2005 7:58:53 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: oceanview
They have input and output ports. Yes, they can be disabled, and without disturbing ohter functions. The device may look like a lump of "doin' things" to you, but it looks entirely different to someone who has the hardware and software schematics and knows what he's doing.

I'd be surprised that there weren't already someone who had the technique down. As more of them hit the road, the disabling will become a valuable service at a good price.

205 posted on 10/10/2005 8:07:09 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell

Thanks for the penetrating questions.
I have thought enough about this to form an opinion.
This really is a "constitutional site".
You turn enough house-apes loose with online computers and the goofiest silliness occurs.
Kinda like an enormous "open-air-asylum".
Guys come out of the woodwork swatting at imaginary flies and asking goofy questions in third grade broken English filled with misspellings.
It's kinda fun.


206 posted on 10/10/2005 9:00:14 PM PDT by CBart95
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Big brother is watching you.


207 posted on 10/10/2005 9:04:32 PM PDT by SmoothTalker
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To: CBart95

Follow up:
Are some of you guys Chinese online crazees?


208 posted on 10/10/2005 9:04:49 PM PDT by CBart95
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To: Ben Mugged

"I personally believe this is a good thing. The car has a lot of safety mandated equipment. I believe that if the driver knows that in the event of a driving incident, the car will testify on exactly what the car was doing at the time, this could, if used properly, encourage the driver to drive more responsibly."

That's disgusting.
Well, I guess what's next is we'll all have little "food cards" that we have to swipe each time we go to the supermarket, or hit the local Burger King... too many calories (according to Big Brother's chart, of course) and ... sorry! No food for you, bucko! ... that'll teach you to eat more responsibly, huh?"


209 posted on 10/10/2005 9:12:04 PM PDT by Pravious
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To: CBart95
Will you be as enthusiastic when your vehicle recorder takes such a narow snapshot, with several interpretations and the meanist taken, of an accident in which you are involved?

210 posted on 10/10/2005 9:41:17 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell

What are you trying to say? This is not an English word.
"meanist".Is it Chinese?
It seems you are indicating that you believe these "recorders" are diabolical plans to incriminate innocent drivers.
If you think people are out to get you, you might be right.
Have you noticed people following you? Lately?
How old are you?


211 posted on 10/10/2005 11:12:46 PM PDT by CBart95
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To: CBart95
A word may have been mispelled, but the purpose of the language is to communicate. Did you understand what I asked?

212 posted on 10/10/2005 11:42:46 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell

He's some sort of Statist ("Maybe it depends on whether you have something to hide or not"), and he's not enough of an Internet vet to get beyond "you misspelled it!!! Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah!" ;-)


213 posted on 10/11/2005 6:52:14 AM PDT by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
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To: Jeff Gordon
Lester: Anyone that can say living under that kind of monitoring is freedom is pathological.

Jeff: It is better than trial by walking on burning coals.

It's also better than getting bamboo shoots up the fingers, or knocked in the head with a flatjack, or getting boiled in oil. Yeah.

214 posted on 10/11/2005 6:52:56 AM PDT by Lester Moore (islam's allah is Satan and is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.)
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To: William Terrell

No need for lectures on the purpose of language. We kinda get it.
Have a nice life.


215 posted on 10/11/2005 8:40:10 AM PDT by CBart95
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To: AFreeBird
The sensors are things like anti-lock brakes, throttle position, and speed. Disable the sensors and your anti-lock brakes don't work, your car will not accelerate, and your speedometer doesn't work. These are integrated systems, meaning they are interactive.
216 posted on 10/11/2005 9:29:14 AM PDT by Ben Mugged (Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil. - Thomas Mann)
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To: Pravious
That's disgusting.

I was asked for my opinion and I replied honestly. I expected to get get attacked and to have to justify my position and I have done so.

"Disgusting" is a pretty strong word. Code Pink protesters in a park with "Bush lied" signs are disgusting. Looters in New Orleans are disgusting. Child molesters are disgusting. Having a differing opinion about the value of safety equipment on a car is concerning but certainly does not qualify as "disgusting".

217 posted on 10/11/2005 9:42:07 AM PDT by Ben Mugged (Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil. - Thomas Mann)
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To: CBart95
This really is a "constitutional site". You turn enough house-apes loose with online computers and the goofiest silliness occurs. Kinda like an enormous "open-air-asylum".

What up Arne Fufkin?

218 posted on 10/11/2005 10:43:54 AM PDT by jmc813 (Bork Miers)
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To: Ben Mugged

Sorry - not enough coffee - probably "disgusting" was too strong a term to use for those who tolerate (or even approve) of Big Brother monitoring our every move via our automobiles.


219 posted on 10/11/2005 2:39:33 PM PDT by Pravious
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To: Ben Mugged

2200RPM using a 30" diameter tire, a 3.08 differential gear ratio and a .70 overdrive works out to about 39MPH; on ice, the driver should have switched to a lower gear and not applied the brakes.

The best way to view this case is as an appellate test stand for future court cases.

All that said, anything about 5-15MPH is too fast most times.


220 posted on 10/11/2005 3:08:05 PM PDT by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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