Posted on 10/09/2005 12:53:46 PM PDT by Willie Green
For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.
The map seems logical. And thought of renewing an old form of travel with a modern twist is intriguing.
Hop on a train in Cleveland and shoot off to places like Columbus, Detroit, Pittsburgh or Toronto at 110 mph. You'd be in Columbus, for example, in one hour and 38 minutes. It would take around four hours to get to Chicago.
The idea, in various forms, has lingered for decades. But now, in part because of interest from Congress and isolated successes of similar routes across the country, train advocates are singing an optimistic tune for a high-speed rail system that could make Cleveland a hub.
"Twenty-four states are saying we need a rail program," says Randy Wade of the Wisconsin Department of Transportation. "There are limits to what we can do to expand the highway system. There isn't a lot of space to add lanes. . . . Our air system is congested. The price of gas is in the $3-a-gallon range."
Train ridership has steadily increased between Milwaukee and Chicago, as it has for trains in California, such as a popular run between Sacramento and the Bay Area. In those cases, the states are paying about half the operating costs, with fares covering the rest.
The Ohio Rail Development Commission, which has studied and refined the Ohio plan, believes fares could pay 100 percent of the operating cost in Ohio. That could mean around $50 each way from Cleveland to Columbus.
The rail commission's Don Damron says studies indicate that enough people would park their cars and pay that fare if the trains operate at sensible times, unlike the Amtrak trains that pass through Northeast Ohio only in the middle of the night.
"For business, you have to look at the value of the time," Damron says. "You could work on the train."
To build the $3.5 billion system, largely by upgrading existing track, Ohio needs federal help. No state money is budgeted for construction.
Rep. Steven LaTourette, a Republican from Concord Township and a member of the House Transportation Committee, supports a bill that has passed the committee and is awaiting a House vote to spend $60 billion on rail improvements. He is one of 72 co-sponsors.
"The future of transportation in this country has to have a strong rail component," LaTourette says. "Passenger rail competes favorably for trips of 400 miles or less. . . . It is a great way to travel."
There is, however, no solid prediction on when such trains could get rolling in places like Ohio.
I went back to Ohio
But my city was gone
There was no train station
There was no downtown
South Howard had disappeared
All my favorite places
My city had been pulled down
Reduced to parking spaces
A, o, way to go Ohio
Well I went back to Ohio
But my family was gone
I stood on the back porch
There was nobody home
I was stunned and amazed
My childhood memories
Slowly swirled past
Like the wind through the trees
A, o, oh way to go Ohio
I went back to Ohio
But my pretty countryside
Had been paved down the middle
By a government that had no pride
The farms of Ohio
Had been replaced by shopping malls
And muzak filled the air
From Seneca to Cuyahoga Falls
Said, a, o, oh way to go Ohio
Connecting to the regional dirigible port for longer trips, I presume.
Amtrak can't keep their wheels on the tracks at 60MPH. Imagine the government running a railroad at twice that speed?
Swiss rail is fantastic. I spent 6 months travelling between Zurich and Luzerne. Their cars are so clean, and quiet. The tracks are smooth as silk. No jerky clitty-clack at all.
If this is such a great thing, then why not let private investors build a high speed train?
Answer: Because while the train may be fast and quiet it is not economically feasable.
Imagine any private company in the world with a negative 50 percent profit margin!! That's horrible and the thought that Congress wants more of our $$$$ to "fix" this problem is disgraceful.
Another mass-transit boondoggle that people won't use; after all the money spent to build it, it will continue to operate in the red to provide jobs for goobermint workers.
Just damn.
I have always loved traveling by train. That is, until my last trip on Amtrak. Never have I experienced such miserable service. That convinced me that the government should not be in the transportation business. (Or any other kind of business, for that matter.)
It bothers me that even on the most popular routes, tax money still pays half the operating costs. The Ohio Rail Development Commission may say they believe that fares can pay all of the costs, but I doubt that their calculations will stand up to scrutiny.
As for construction costs, not even the Ohio Rail Development Commission is proposing that they be paid out of fares. Instead, Ohio is looking to the Federal Government—which is another way of saying, they are looking to soak the taxpayers again.
If passenger rail were economical, it should not need such massive subsidies.
Easy there, easy there.
Keeping the wheels on the track will be no problem after the government starts writing checks for upgrades. Of course it will be tax payer money and Amtrak will still not get enough riders for it to operate in the black.
That will lead to more subsidies.
High-speed rail travel in Japan is a huge success. But the demographics and economics are 180 degrees from here: you have half the population of America crammed into the space of California.
Well said!
This is already happening in areas which were in danger of losing rail service. Either local government or a public entity such as an Economic Development Corporation purchases the tracks. The rails then become a public utility. Without the burden of property taxes and upkeep, the railroads are able to operate at a profit, taking many large trucks off our overburdened, crumbling roads.
Also, when the rails are publicly owned, this fosters competition. BNSF not giving you good service? No problem- have Norfolk Southern come in and haul your freight instead. Or buy a couple used locomotives, hire crews, and haul it yourself.
We could dispatch trains on a national network just as we do aircraft.
The wretched state of our rail network is a national disgrace. I propose, instead of pouring billions into new highways which will be overcrowded as soon as they open, we build the Ronald Wilson Reagan system of Interstate and Defense Railways, to compliment the Eisenhower Interstate Highway system. Heavy welded rail, high and wide clearances, multiple tracks, engineered for freights at 100 mph and passenger trains at 125 plus.
The technolgy exists today to protect level crossings from intrustion- the railroads can't and won't spend the money. These new railways will be either grade-separated at crossings or protected by fences and a product similar to Energy Aborption's Stopgate:
http://www.energyabsorption.com/products/permanent/stopgate.htm
Eventually I can see most of the nation's railways being managed in the same way highways, airports, waterways and seaports are managed. Government maintains the tracks, private companies run the trains. Everybody wins.
BTW I am assuming that some of the cost would be borne by extending "highway" taxes to railroads' diesel fuel, by registration and inspection on railroad locomotives, and perhaps ton/mile taxes on shipments.
Slow, though. ;^)
There are very few places you can't get to via rail in Europe. It's cool riding the TGV going over 170MPH!
I agree. Instead of going home for a twoo week break, I got the client to pay to have my wife come over from The States and pay all expenses except for meals. We took day trips all over the Alps, including foing to the town of Interlochen was really neat train ride. You go through a mountain with the rail line in a corkscrew configuration. At one minute you're looking down a few thousand feet at a Church on your right, and after 10 minutes in darkness, you're at the same level as the SAME Church on your left. Absolutely amazing. We road the World's steepest cog-rail train up the side of Mt. Titlis, had lunch with many beers, and took the cable car down the other side. My wife and I agree this was ab-so-lutley our best vacation.
The air-traffic control system is financed by taxes and fees paid by the airline passengers. (I expect the entire system to be privatized in the very near future, as the ATC systems have been privatized in over a dozen other countries.) Most airports also charge passenger fees. Altogether, taxes and fees add about 16% to the price of an airline ticket.
That is a far cry from having the government pick up 50% of the operating costs and 100% of the construction costs of passenger rail.
As for having the government own and maintain the rails—the suggestion makes me cringe. What makes you think that the government can operate a business better than the private sector?
Yeppers, I remember that exact route! I didn't realize what had happened at first because you're way up there and then next thing you know you're going, wait a minute, I remember seeing this up there. Brilliant engineering. The funiculars and gondolas are cool, too.
"The air-traffic control system is financed by taxes and fees paid by the airline passengers. (I expect the entire system to be privatized in the very near future, as the ATC systems have been privatized in over a dozen other countries.) Most airports also charge passenger fees. Altogether, taxes and fees add about 16% to the price of an airline ticket."
The ATC system is also financed by fuel taxes paid by private pilots.
Although the Bush administration has been more resolute than the Clinton administration in keeping the ATC system in federal hands, Bush has still waffled. Fortunately, Congress, led by the key committee chairmen, appears determined to reject any attempt to privatize ATC. Thank God. There are so many examples of how privatized ATC is a disaster that it's daunting to even start listing them. To take one (NavCanada), look at how the system is floundering from a technology viewpoint, and how many fatal crashes have been caused by private pilots who didn't want to purchase an instrument flight plan due to the cost.
I'm confident privatized ATC will never rear its ugly head in the US.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.