Posted on 10/06/2005 6:16:55 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
The vast majority of homeowners will pay the $25.00/year. How does the Department survive now?
Also, I suspect it is very unlikely that someone who has just lost everything they had in a fire is going to be able to foot a $10,000-20,000 bill.
The Fire Department can place a lien against the property. If the indigent homeowner doesn't like it, he can tell the firefighters not to extinguish, and sign a DNR at the fire scene. If the homeowner is not present, that's implied consent to extinguish unless he has a DNR signed and on file. All of this would be very easy to have the County Board of Supervisors adopt as an ordinance, and I'm sure many Counties have done just such.
They pay the fee now because most of them probably thought that if they didn't pay, they wouldn't get fire protection. But if this case goes the other way, and the rule becomes "pay as you go", maybe fewer will pay. Particularly if they've got insurance to cover it.
The Fire Department can place a lien against the property.
You mean the damaged property that will be subordinate to the first lien of the mortgage company? C'mon, firefighters aren't lawyers and they shouldn't have to play one at the scene of a fire. Why can't people just pay their $25 bill? Is that so unreasonable? You're creating an awfully complicated system to bail people out of their own stupid choices.
And that still doesn't solve the real problem, which is that a fire department requires money to operate even when there are no fires. And the monetary value of the house does not equate to the value the deparment provides to a stricken homeowner.
Say you have a community of 10,000 homes. Average home value is 100,000. And they average one home burned to the ground every year. Under your system, the most the fire department is going to get is $100,000. Under a system where everyone pays $25, that's $250,000. Now if you've got that $250,000 coming in every year, you can hire firefighters, buy equipment, etc., and staff it at a level of $250,000/year. But if you don't, then you're going to have a much less capable department -- the kind that can survive on no more than $100,000/year.
These weather conditions are perfect for early cool weather house fires because people begin to plug in those space heaters and fire up the old kerosene stoves; one kick too close to an oily curtain or a corner filled with newspapers and the game is on.
About fire departments in general, it is prudent to remember that they were organized more to stop the spread of fires than to extinguish each single burning structure.
perhaps.
Virginia Volunteer FF-III, HazMat Hello.
Int'l Falls is in the Northern part of MN,
it's on the Canadian border, also very rual.As it most of that part of MN And colder the a well digger's A** in the middle of winter..
I live in a rural area in SE MN. We don't pay a fee that we know of, our township contracts with one of the local volenteer depts to take fire and ambulance calls(also volenteers). If the township pays a yearly fee to the volenteer dept. that's ok, they do need to buy and maintain equiptment to provide the service.
Having had the fire dept (all volenteers) come out I can tell you that the person who owns/lives in the place on fire pays a set amount for the response. (well over 25 dollars) If you carry fire insurance it will probably pay that charge, since it's cheaper to have them put out the fire and save some of the surrounding structures then to replace everything.
I really don't get why they collect a yearly fee from each individual, it sounds like a very inefficiant way to set the whole thing up, I would also like to know how much the city of international falls charges the rural resident for a fire call if anything. If the resident who lost his home is supposed to pay the response charge then regardless of a non paid yearly fee the fire dept. (is it a paid on in IF?) acted irresponsibly by not staying and watching for flareups.
Let's extend that argument.
It's Hollywood's job to supply me with movies even if I refuse to pay.
It's Detroit's job to provide me with a car even if I refuse to pay.
It's Kroger's job to supply me with food even if I refuse to pay.
It's Wal-Mart's job to keep me clothed even if I refuse to pay.
And so on.
Will you die without hollywood movies?
Will you die without Detroit's cars?
Will you die without Kroeger's food?
Will you die without Walmart?
Perhaps you haven't read the other responses on this thread. There are several communities that operate as I outlined, and they work just fine. Your assumption that noone will pay the fee is unrealistic because it goes against human nature and standard insurance practices.
Insurance companies will drop your coverage if you don't pay the annual fee. This will then cause the mortgage lender to call the loan. As for liens against damaged real estate, if the property is burned, it's uninhabitable. The indigent homeowner is more than likely going to sell the land, since he can't live on it. And if he has a mortgage he has insurance, so the insurer will pay the Fire Dept. cost recovery. If somehow the fire happens after the insurance lapses but before foreclosure, then that indigent homeless former homeowner sure put one over on Fire Department, guess he showed them what's what.
Your nightmare scenario is only realistic if the vast majority of residents in a community are uninsured, reckless, indigent and yet somehow own their property free and clear. If there is a community like that, then the County would need to adopt a different strategy.
Maybe that's the problem where this episode occurred, but I suspect it has more to do with a corrupt and/or incompetent Fire Chief and/or County Board.
Firefighters (both professional and volunteer) follow legal procedures all the time on both structure fires and medical calls. Give them a little credit for being able to follow administrative procedures in addition to emergency procedures.
In our area, some panhandler stole a fireman's boot and stood on a corner, about 2 blocks away from a fire station. I know it was a panhandler because I stopped at the fire station and asked them.
They knew nothing of the guy. They calle dthe cops because he stole one of their boots.
Rather than giving money, I stop at the grocery store which is next to the station and buy pizzas, cokes, or whatever. When I have the money, if I see one of them buying chow for the station, I pay for it instead so they can save their money.
Recently, they recognized my car stalled on the road. They stopped the truck which was on it's way back to the station after a call, and helped me puch it off the main road.
Soldiers, police, and firefighters can never get enough respect for the jobs they do.
Yes. I will die without food.
What a story! I don't have that problem -- I know all of our firemen -- someone I didn't know wouldn't get a dime from me.
When our town went from a paid department to all volunteer, you should have heard the nonsense -- mostly from the firemen who were going to lose their jobs -- they kept saying the volunteers won't be as well trained, we'll have a hard time getting enough volunteers. Fortunately, the people in my town were smart enough to see through the bullchip and go for the all volunteer fire department. And what the paid firemen said about volunteers has turned out to be untrue. We have plenty of volunteers and I would put them up to any paid fire company in terms of skills, training and experience any day.
We also have a number of other small communities nearby with their own fire companies. If our firemen need more help with a fire, they can turn to those other companies, and those other companies can call in our volunteers when needed. They have also, from time to time, held joint fundraisers. I have the utmost respect for all of our emergency people.
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