Posted on 10/06/2005 6:16:55 AM PDT by wallcrawlr
Carl Berg failed to pay a $25 annual fee for rural fire protection and, as a result, firefighters let his house burn to the ground last month near International Falls, Minn.
Along with his daughter and a grandson, Berg escaped the fire, grabbing two rifles and a camcorder as he went.
"I lost everything [else]," he said. "Stand and watch it burn was all I could do. ... They should have put the thing out, but they didn't."
Some area residents are expressing outrage about a system that can let that happen -- and about a dispute involving the International Falls Fire Department, Koochiching County and the Rural Fire Protection Association, which collects annual fees and pays the city for each fire it fights outside city limits.
"You either buy it or you don't have it," said Don Billig, the association's secretary.
"You buy the fire protection up here, and you have it," Billig said.
However, Fire Chief Jerry Jensen said, "It's not the way we're trained. It's just wrong. ... My job is to put out fires, not to watch them burn, [and] I don't want this to happen again."
But it has happened before, and it might again because for two years the city, county and the fire association have been unable to agree on costs of replacing the voluntary fee with a property tax levy that would fund fire protection for everyone.
The Fire Department poured enough water on Berg's structure -- a mobile home and enclosed porch -- to put the fire out temporarily and make sure everyone was safe.
But when firefighters were called back later, they let the rekindled blaze destroy the building's remains.
(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...
Puppies occasionally kick you?
Ok, I'll try to explain this to you. Nowhere in the story does it say he FORGOT, just that it was not paid, so immediately assuming he forgot is not supported by the facts. It was a single person dwelling, the one person got out, and I believe in the story it mentions the building being a loss anyway. Apparently the owner didn't care enough to make sure he was properly ensured.
This happened in my rural area about 10 years ago, and the opinion of most here is that it's too bad, but that's life. The mother of the family did not forget, she just assumed that something like that would never happen to her.
I run with a rural PA volunteer fire company. The difference between a volunteer fire company and a volunteer fire dept mainly has to do with who owns the capital equipment. My fire company bought and owns all of our trucks, gear and building. The only local tax money we get is workmans comp insurance (by state law), insurance on the capital and diesel fuel. The Chief gets a $500.00 and the Assistant Chief gets $400.00 from the town (to pay for gas in their POVs), which also gives the FC $3000.00 in cash for operating expenses. A fire dept. on the other hand implys that the town owns the building and or the trucks or other equipment.
So, this means that we have to spend a lot of time fund raising in addition to training. To use myself as an example, from Jan 1 2005 to today, I have gone to (40) 3 hour company drills, completed 160 state fire school training hours, ran on almost 100 fire/emergency calls and put in over 50 hours fund raising time. I'm also the recording secretary of the county firemans association. I don't get paid for this, I do it because it is in my blood. My son also has it in his blood.
Volunteer fireman do this because they want to do it. It is a very dangerous job. Fathers, Mothers, Sons, and Daughters get killed putting out fires. I live in a secluded area. If my house catches on fire and the fire has a foot hold in the attic, I don't even want the firefighters on the roof. Saving what is basically ashes at this point is not worth it to me to have to live with the knowledge that a firefighter got killed when my roof fell in.
People complain about the fireman always looking for money. It costs my fire company approx. $5000.00 to get me dressed (bunker gear, SCBA, and so forth) to put out a trailer fire. I ride to the burning trailer on a truck that costs $350,000.00. Multiply that number by the number of firefighters at the fire and count the number of trucks and guess what? Over a million dollars worth of gear shows up at the homeowners door step when the call comes in. $25.00 for fire protection is the biggest bargan out there.
I think many people in my town are unaware of the fact that the town puts so little into the fire company. We are very professional and dedicated. Usually it takes us about 4 minutes to get the first truck rolling after we get paged. Travel time to the scene usually takes longer. A fire in a trailer that has a 10-15 minute head start has a big advantage over us.
Last Feb., on my son's birthday, while driving home from work and planning to take him and the family to pizza hut, we received a mutual aid call from the next town over. My family waited 2 hours while I help put out this ladies house fire. We kept the damage limited to the living room floor and there was some somke/heat damage and we cut open the roof. My guess is that the house had at most $25K worth of damage. This lady has spent the last 8 months bad mouthing the volunteer fire compnies that came when called. We don't get paid for this.
Tom
"Great. So the fire department collects maybe $200 all year because people only pay their $25 after their house catches fire."
The proper application of this concept would be to bill those homes that did not pay before hand for the full cost of fighting the fire, including wear and tear on equipment, replacement of any damaged equipment, facilities and equipment overhead, water, food, etc., etc., etc.
So you can pay $25.00 a year, or wait till there's a fire and pay $2,000.00. Actually, the Fire Department in question is STOO-PID, because insurance companies will pay for cost recovery billed by emergency responders (it's cheaper than rebuilding the house from the foudation up).
And thanks for doing so much for your neighbors.
The fireman critics on this thread seem to ignore the fact that this clown is moaning and complaining that the fire department, which did respond, didn't expend enough time or effort to rescue his property.
If his property meant that much to him, then he should have insured it and paid for fire service.
As a nonidiot, my home is fully insured for fire losses, and I would never let a fireman risk himself to set foot in my house to fight a fire if everyone in my home were safely outside.
I assume the same people are all unemployed, because it would be wrong to trust themselves to put food on their table instead of God.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I was a Captain on a volunteer fire department. I helped put out many fires -- even for people I didn't like and no, we were not paid. Being on a small rural fire department is hardly a job it's just something neighbors do to help neighbors. The money from fund raisers went towards equipment, not pay. Most small departments work this way. I might add that most small departments go out of their way to look for old houses or mobile homes to burn for training. It wouldn't have hurt them to put the fire out. The whole world does not revolve around the almighty dollar. Choosing to help a neighbor is not slavery, it's just the right thing to do. I'm certain they would have received their $25 bucks and more, after the fire. As other posters noted, they could have billed him for the service too.
I must say, I'm certainly glad that some of the "let it burn" posters here are not my neighbors. I suppose that they would run over my dog too, if he got out, because there is a leash law.
On the other side of the coin, If a structure burns beyond a certain point, sometimes it would be doing the homeowner a favor to let it finish burning. Less of a mess to clean up. It's also possible that the reporter has misrepresented the whole thing too.
What if you have a couple of years when there are fewer fires? How does the department survive during those lean times?
Also, I suspect it is very unlikely that someone who has just lost everything they had in a fire is going to be able to foot a $10,000-20,000 bill.
Why not just do what they did? If you don't pay, you don't get fire protection. Seems completely reasonable to me.
I was thinking the same thing.
That happened to our neighbor in MS years ago. He didn't pay, but when his house burned (aluminum wiring) they billed him and it was very expensive.
you said As a nonidiot, my home is fully insured for fire losses, and I would never let a fireman risk himself to set foot in my house to fight a fire if everyone in my home were safely outside
A lot of people don't realize that every area has an insurance "ISO" rating which is used in part to determine the homeowner insurance rates. The easiest way to lower the ISO number is to have a well trained well equiped fire co. Invest in a fire co., lower you homeowners insurance rates, very simple
Tom
"You didn't pay your money, let the bleeperblanker burn,
"Burn, bleeperblanker, burrrrrrrrrrn..."
LOL!
This thread got way too serious after post #2!
The fire department did respond and put out the fire. It then re-erupted after they left. They let it burn the second time. I think there is more to this story than what is in the article.
As a volunteer i agree with you because it's good practice and we do it for the fun. I'm guessing though that the fire company that was involved is paid. One thing for sure is that it was a "city" fire co. not the local volunteer FC. I'm also guessing that the "city" is getting tired of subsidizing the out of town rural communities
All of this is probably a tactic to get the pols in the rural community to put in a millage tax to fund fire protection. I know we cover a small village that doesn't pay us anything.
Some of the posters say they pay property taxes and thus are intitled to fire protection. Their problem is not with the fire district, it is with the town fathers who do not want to raise taxes to fund the fire department. I know of a town that collects a fire millage tax and keeps the money for the general fund. If the town collected taxes for the county public library and didn't pay the library system the money, the townsfolk would be up in arms when the county library refused to let them borrow books. But it is different with the fire co.
Tom
Sometimes. :-P
Yes, and they put out the blaze once, even though he hadn't bought what essentially was the $25 fire insurance policy.
No, it's your job to remember to pay for the insurance you need to protect your home.
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