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2nd post for Shadow
1 posted on 10/05/2005 7:42:39 AM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: N3WBI3; ShadowAce; Tribune7; frogjerk; Salo; LTCJ; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Buck W.; clyde asbury; ...

TECH PING!


2 posted on 10/05/2005 7:43:21 AM PDT by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
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To: N3WBI3

"For all of its talk about being an innovator, Microsoft is really just a follower."

Yeah, they just copy what the bigger, more popular companies do.


3 posted on 10/05/2005 7:49:15 AM PDT by L98Fiero
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To: N3WBI3
Don't you just love pulling up PDFs?

They take an awfully long time to render.

4 posted on 10/05/2005 7:51:47 AM PDT by lormand (It's a long 3 hours between Rush and Levin)
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To: N3WBI3

I was just reading about a new browser called FLOCK. Has anyone tried it yet? http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/051005/tc20051052789_tc024.html?.v=1


6 posted on 10/05/2005 7:53:23 AM PDT by tubebender (Humboldt County...Where the men are men and so are the women)
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To: N3WBI3
There's one big issue for OpenDocument: will someone provide the tools to cleanly convert Word documents, Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentation files to OpenDocument format?

That could be a pretty time-consuming issue--and time is money.

8 posted on 10/05/2005 8:03:44 AM PDT by RayChuang88
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To: N3WBI3

> With PDF support alone, Microsoft can still try for
> Massachusetts government contracts without having
> to add OpenDocument.

Reportedly, that still won't qualify. PDF is essentially
a read-only format, and what MA wants is that electronic
documents be readable and modifiable at any time in the
future. Unless PDF has mutated, it loses the structure
and flow information of the original WP/DTP app.

By the way, how is this "new" Save-As .pdf from MS any
different from the PDF for Word plug-in that's been
available forever from Adobe?

MS wants to protect (and extend) their undocumented
document formats, and preserve their "diode effect" (you
can import other fmts into Word, but not export with
full capability). Those days are about to end.

I'm a refugee from the Peoples State of Taxachusetts,
and expect only horrors from there (like the Big Dig),
but what they've done here is a sensible thing, and it
really exposes the risks of storing your important
data in proprietary formats.

MS probably had been looking forward to subscription-
based licensing, where you'd have to keep paying them
even to open your .doc's in Word, followed eventually
by pay-per-save or even pay-per-read. Well, that train
is off the rails.


9 posted on 10/05/2005 8:03:51 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: N3WBI3

I'm wondering how good the save as PDF will be, and whether they'll actually write a PDF to specs. They're working on their own competitor in Vista called Metro, so it's in their interest to play their usual games, and maybe make Office PDFs (there will be millions floating around after 12 is released) bloated and broken so later they can show why Metro is better.


14 posted on 10/05/2005 8:19:45 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: N3WBI3

Of course, Office for OS X users have had PDF support for a while. It's inherent in the OS.


18 posted on 10/05/2005 8:27:09 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: N3WBI3
Historically, Microsoft's business model was based upon proprietary APIs, protocols, and document formats. Overtime the business practices enabled Microsoft to become the monolopy so loathed by others in the industry (competitors).

The question is how can Microsoft adapt to open standards while maintaining the integrity of existing multi-year contracts for those that licensed their proprietary APIs, protocols, and document formats? For example, joeDev licensed the use of a proprietary file format and is paying US$xyz (which may be a royalty) for use in his product. Can Microsoft legally provide the file format as an open standard, or would they be locked in to maintaining the existing licenses? I am not supporting Microsoft here, just asking a general question.

28 posted on 10/05/2005 9:03:31 AM PDT by rit
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To: N3WBI3

Well, if this plays out like the whole Java thing, or even http html for that matter, Microsoft's plan will be to support pdf... but then "enhance" it in ways that only work w/ windows. In other words, don't attack head on, pretend to go along and then gradually corrupt it from inside.


29 posted on 10/05/2005 9:03:38 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: N3WBI3
My my my, aren't we on a roll today?  Are you going for the coveted 2005 "Most Words Posted by a Tech Freeper" award?

Guess I'll have to read all this stuff later.  Seems interesting enough and should lead to some heated discussion!

34 posted on 10/05/2005 9:54:48 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires.)
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To: N3WBI3
Is Microsoft Running Scared of OpenDocument?

Answer: No, Microsoft is just continuing to support industry standard formats such as their own and the longtime Adobe format, just as any huge company trying to satisfy a huge customer base would do. The free software freaks hate this, of course, simply because Microsoft didn't give all their applications and code away to the entire world, immediately, for free. Nothing else will of course ever be accepted.

40 posted on 10/05/2005 1:35:50 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
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To: N3WBI3

Doesn't Adobe own the rights to the PDF format? I know that they give the reader away for free, but not the writing software.


73 posted on 10/05/2005 4:21:38 PM PDT by meyer (The DNC prefers advancing the party at the expense of human lives.)
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To: N3WBI3
Could it be that it's because Microsoft is backing its way into ever so reluctantly supporting an open format after Massachusetts decided that it would only use office suites that supported open formats like PDF and OpenDocument?

Naw... ya think?

In the case of PDF though, it was a really simple straightforward problem. Currently, on our OfficeOnline site, we are seeing over 30,000 searches per week for PDF support. That makes a pretty easy decision :-)

Who does Brian Jones think he's kidding? That 30K hits per week didn't just start this week, did it? And yet nobody said anything about this at PDC or MVP. I'm sure that PDF has been a customer requirement for some time. Obviously, many people wanted this. And Brian makes the announcement on his blog?

Only now, when Microsoft really wants back on that approved vendor list, does it finally add the support. Maybe it'll work. Maybe they'll be off the hook for ODF support by tossing out the PDF bone.

Really innovative.

86 posted on 10/05/2005 7:48:43 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (Open Source: the difference between trust and antitrust)
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To: N3WBI3
Microsoft is now going to include PDF in the next version of Office.

What is Microsoft up to, anyway, with its sudden plan to finally support PDF?

Actually, I'd like to know what Adobe is up to. 

MS tried to get Adobe to allow Office to read PDFs in Office 97 and Adobe refused so, who's "finally" allowing who to do what?

 

90 posted on 10/05/2005 8:32:39 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Jews don't eat pigs because pigs are unclean. Muslims don't because it's cannibalism.)
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