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To: safisoft
You people don't get out of mass much do you? The term "Bible" did not originate in the Roman Church - and there are a lot of places selling Bibles that do not contain 'New Testaments' - so they might be surprised by your claim. People like you spout this line every time, and when challenged you make some noise about "Oh, I meant the WHOLE Bible" - meanwhile discounting the fact that 3/4 of your Bible was what your supposed first pope (Kefa, Peter) called SCRIPTURE - and it was the only Bible HE HAD.

Wow, you must be a special treat at parties. Here are some pointers though. I'm not "you people". Who exactly "you people" refers to I'm not sure, but keep the tone, it allows people to make a quick decision in regard to your character.

If you consider yourself part of the Christian Church, then you can't refer to Peter as "your supposed first Pope", for the same logical reason you cannot refer to "The United States" during the 1600's.

I doubt Peter had any Bible at all. He wrote and received letters. He would have also had knowledge if not possession (not likely) of the Jewish histories and laws. For the first 300 years or so, the Church used a collection of different works, but did not settle on which ones were authentic, redundant or trivial. This is why that although many Latin texts from this period exist, no "Bible" from this period exists. Unless you are simply saying that "biblyos" is Greek for book, which really meant a volume, which really applies to any scrap of paper. The Old Testament is not inclusive of all Jewish histories, but it could be a bible. It just couldn't be "The Christian Bible", as that would require Christ.

Christ never gave instructions for the creation of the Bible, but then he didn't have to answer to evangelicals.

Curiously, I wonder where you make the cut off between early Church and evil Catholics? Which one wrote your Bible?

274 posted on 10/05/2005 11:21:40 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: SampleMan
I doubt Peter had any Bible at all. He wrote and received letters. He would have also had knowledge if not possession (not likely) of the Jewish histories and laws.

Clearly, you are not very aware of history. In fact Peter did have a 'Bible'. He quotes extensively from the LXX (Septuagint, the Greek version of the Hebrew Bible). He refers to it as SCRIPTURE. And yes, if you want to get technical it was in biblio format. A bound codex is not the definition of "Bible", friend - but neither was that binding an invention of the Catholic Church. Apparently you are unaware of 2Timothy 4:13 where Paul says,

"Bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas when you come and the books, especially the parchments..."

Now you can believe what you like about what is a 'Christian Bible' but Paul would look at you like you had lost your mind. He asked Timothy to bring his biblios. Heresy! Without a Catholic Church to sancition it? Musta been books of Plato.

For the first 300 years or so, the Church used a collection of different works, but did not settle on which ones were authentic, redundant or trivial.

Again, your information is false. The fact is that approved lists that ADDED 'New Testament' books to the sacred Scriptures were present very early in the Second Century (and earlier. Paul called Peter's writings Scripture and Peter said the same thing of Paul's writings). The first canonical councils assumed their precedence. Have you even READ Clement I? That is First Century. He is even claimed by Catholics as their own, but apparently your dogma did not give you his name in your talking points.

Curiously, I wonder where you make the cut off between early Church and evil Catholics? Which one wrote your Bible?

Roman Catholicism has its orgin in the middle Second Century, although not exclusive in leadership. By the early Third Century it began to have more exclusive sway. By the late Third and early Fourth Century, Roman Catholicism was dominate.

As for the earliet believers, they were mostly Jewish, and used the Jewish Scriptures in addition to writings of the Apostles. After the first generation died out, at the end of the First Century, the majority of leadership was from Greek and Roman background - and disavowed all ties to Jews.

That's history, but you will likely and blindly reject it. But is there to read if you dare.

It just couldn't be "The Christian Bible", as that would require Christ.

How sad that some people not only know little of the front 3/4ths of their Bible, but the 'New Testament' as well. Yeshua [Jesus] and Paul taught that the entire 'Old Testament' speaks of Messiah.

For the first 30 years, the early believers did quite well with only what you call the 'Old Testament'. They would laugh at what you say about their Bible.
276 posted on 10/05/2005 11:49:06 AM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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